Vick indicted in dog fighting case

[macallan25]

Alright.......so The Smoking Gun has a copy of the 18 page affidavit. If what it says is true.....that man should never be allowed to play football again and should be thrown in jail for I don't know how man years. It is absolutely sick.

Talks about drowning the dogs, slamming their heads on the ground, choking them, shooting them, putting them in water and then electricuting them, etc. etc. It names witnesses, names of dogs, dogs that Vick purchased, how much money was being pooled...............personally I think the guy is screwed.

[OneTimeSBX]

i was a Vick fan up until this.

i have never even had a pet and i get a sick feeling hearing about these allegations. i hope he, and anyone else involved, gets some serious time.

[Jill1228]

I love Clinton Portis's remarks about the situation
He is soaring to the top of my shit list
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6836960

[ZTABullwinkle]

Originally Posted by Jill1228

I love Clinton Portis's remarks about the situation
He is soaring to the top of my shit list
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6836960

I am by no means justifying what Portis said! However, those comments were made at the "Beach Blitz" in May. After about a week, Portis corrected himself and said that he didn't codone dog fighting. He apologized after the uproar he created, and the Redskins tried to deflect.

In the long run, no matter what Michael Vick is an idiot and deserves the book thrown at him.

The news here that he is expected in Richmond Federal court next Thursday afternoon, July 26th for his arraignment which is scheduled at 3:30pm

[UGAalum94]

I agree that the methods that they used to kill the unsuccessful dogs may be stronger evidence that something being fundamentally wrong with the people involved. I had already learned that when I posted last night.

But I think the fights themselves are also completely sick because they fight to the point of pretty grievous injury or death, I think, most of the time.

I have no problem with controlled fighting for sport for people, like boxing or real Olympic wrestling. But when the point is to maim or kill for entertainment and gambling, it would be sick for people to do it, and maybe even sicker to compel animals to do it who have no choose not to.

I also want to add that I don't have a problem with people mercifully euthanizing animals for almost any reason at all.

But the guys involved in this are just emotionally broken. And I'm not sure why it makes sense for us to just wait until they start harming people before we recognize that they are probably very dangerous.

I also wonder the same thing when kids do truly horrible stuff repeatedly. I don't know what we should do about it, but it seems silly that we act like we can change fundamentally psychopathic or sociopathic people back to normal.

[Lil' Hannah]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I have no problem with controlled fighting for sport for people, like boxing or real Olympic wrestling. But when the point is to maim or kill for entertainment and gambling, it would be sick for people to do it, and maybe even sicker to compel animals to do it who have no choose not to.

Last night my friend and I were talking about the whole Vick thing and he said "how is it any worse than bullfighting?" I don't really know enough about either sport to give a good answer so after a few seconds I brilliantly said "It just is, okay!" He does raise a point though...can anyone explain for me?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Lil' Hannah

Last night my friend and I were talking about the whole Vick thing and he said "how is it any worse than bullfighting?" I don't really know enough about either sport to give a good answer so after a few seconds I brilliantly said "It just is, okay!" He does raise a point though...can anyone explain for me?

The main difference is that Hemmingway never wrote about dog fighting so we don't romanticize it at all, in my mind - although some would argue that pitting man against animal is somehow different from beast v beast, I think some of the world finds bullfighting pretty much awful, too.

[honeychile]

I could throw up, just reading/hearing about this. The poor "bait dogs" - with their mouths wired shut so they can't fight back - what type of person does that, allows that, or watches that?

Not only should Vick be indicted, but absolutely every person who watched these spectacle should be indicted also.

Jill has the right idea!

[Soliloquy]

The whole Vick family has put themselves into the hot spot the past few years.

I don't know what the deal is with them!

Cockfights are still legal in some states, how sad.

Anything having to do with animal cruelty just makes my stomach turn and my heart hurt. I saw this video on youtube once where some lady was stepping on puppies with heels, I got about 30 seconds into it before I had to x it out. I later found out it was fake, but that didn't stop me from getting angry/sick at the time.

[macallan25]

I don't mean to get off topic......but Tom Earp just said that he fought bulls in Baja Mexico. No offense at all.........but that is one of the most hilarious mental images I have been fortunate to have in quite some time. Earple......please tell me you were hammered runk.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

The whole Vick family has put themselves into the hot spot the past few years.

Who thought a couple years ago that Marcus would be the classier of the two? Not me.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Talks about drowning the dogs, slamming their heads on the ground, choking them, shooting them, putting them in water and then electricuting them, etc. etc. It names witnesses, names of dogs, dogs that Vick purchased, how much money was being pooled...............personally I think the guy is screwed.

Regardless of how highly you rate the immoral nature of dog fighting (which is clearly a sick enterprise), this is by far worse in my mind - this is honestly just brutal. Killing dogs in such disparate fashion is horrific - part of me thinks it had to be done for enjoyment, with so many sick methods attempted. Just unreal.

Originally Posted by kstar

Does this mean her littermate was born aggressive? No, it means that they were more open to the training and treatment of their former owner.

So . . . it was born more open to the training? Or did the dog make a decision to be more open? Either way, you're kind of contradictory (either nature plays a huge role, or there are in fact 'bad' dogs) - not that it's at all relevant to the thread, it's clear Pit Bulls can be extremely good pets under the right circumstances. I'm not sure why you go beyond that, at all.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

So . . . it was born more open to the training? Or did the dog make a decision to be more open? Either way, you're kind of contradictory (either nature plays a huge role, or there are in fact 'bad' dogs) - not that it's at all relevant to the thread, it's clear Pit Bulls can be extremely good pets under the right circumstances. I'm not sure why you go beyond that, at all.

Dogs have different levels of intelligence, and learn what people will teach them at different rates. (I was trying to say that Tasha is d-u-m-b, dumb, dumber than dirt. But she is sweet.)

And it was in reference to what someone posted who implied that the dogs have to fight because they were originally bred for it, the nature arguement. I responded with an anecdote for the nurture arguement. Also, to highlight the horrific manner in which these dogs have been treated, so that people might understand some of their behavior.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by kstar

Ah, the nature versus nurture argument. While the breed's original purpose was to breed for gameness and pit fighting characteristics, they still need training to fight.

My pittie and her littermates were rescued from a fighting house. Tasha is the sweetest thing and is submissive to every dog she meets, while a littermate of hers had to be adopted out to a home with no other dogs because she will try to kill ANY other animal she sees that is smaller or near her size. It was heartbreaking because Tasha wasn't taking to her training, so her original owner was starving her to make her mean, while her more aggressive littermates were getting steaks. Didn't work. Does this mean her littermate was born aggressive? No, it means that they were more open to the training and treatment of their former owner.

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

I will have to find the original article but I am sure it is PubMed, but due to the inbreeding of pit bulls, they have a mutation in the testosterone locus, or possibly the receptor. Meaning the regulation of testosterone is unstable in male pitbulls. In female pitbulls, it probably is not a big deal until she gets past her breeding.

Yes, this aggressive behavior must take training. But how OLD ARE THEY?

Originally Posted by KSig RC

So . . . it was born more open to the training? Or did the dog make a decision to be more open? Either way, you're kind of contradictory (either nature plays a huge role, or there are in fact 'bad' dogs) - not that it's at all relevant to the thread, it's clear Pit Bulls can be extremely good pets under the right circumstances. I'm not sure why you go beyond that, at all.

The dogs are more easily to be trained for aggression. The research scientists do not know why this may occur. Learning is a part of the norepinephrine system and gross aggression is a part of the dopamine system in the brain. Is is possible that teststerone to the hippocampus and pituitary could affect these two systems that are maybe unstable.

Pitbulls could be sweet dogs, but when they age, all those processes may be activated if not taught control. Similar processes occurs in humans.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Pitbulls could be sweet dogs, but when they age, all those processes may be activated if not taught control. Similar processes occurs in humans.

[hijack]
One thing I've always wondered about was how the children of serial killers end up. Are there any studies following up on them? If so, how have the majority of them turned out?

[/hijack]