Results of 2006 APO Convention.

[naraht]

About a year ago, the APO National Board essentially said that the days of the all-male APO chapters were done. The recent convention put that into stone. While I haven't seen the exact wording, what it boils down to is any previously all-male APO chapter at a co-ed school either has to have women brothers or convince their Regional Director that they made a good faith effort. If neither, then the charter will be revoked.

I know the cascade effects won't affect all GSS chapters, but it does affect probably 8 or 10...

Randy

[gamma_girl52]

It won't affect GSS at all really. Why would it? That ruling has nothing to do with Gamma Sig.

[REE1993]

My school had APO and GSS. The APO chapter had several female brothers. There was never any competition between us; each org had its own thing going on. We did hold a few joint events, and aside from a TKE colony, were the only 2 GLOs on campus at the time.

[gamma_girl52]

Hopefully my last post wasn't too rude but really, if there were a school in which there is a GSS chapter and an all-male APO chapter that had to start actively recruiting women, then I don't think there would be any major conflicts there. We already have a few chapters that are in this type of situation and their membership doesn't seem to be affected.

At the end of it all, it's where ever that individual feels the most comfortable being.

[AngelPhiSig]

Since I wasnt active in college - I cant really say much on this subject - but I know that there was an APO chapter at my school and I did not join. I tried to bring Gamma Sig to CU, but it fell through (I believe part of this was me getting very into my classes that semester) but there was just something about GSS that made me want to choose them over APO.

I have expierece with sort of situation (although not exactly similar) with KKPsi and TBS, we have both chapters and both are co-ed, both do well since they recruit different personalities with few "borderline" people that could go either way.

I think that if a woman wants to be in APO she will choose APO, if she wants to be a Gamma Sig, she will choose Gamma Sig and both groups have something to offer and it will come down to the person going where they feel they fit in best.

Now Im thinking, "Where did all this positive talk come from?"... its been a crazy week and Ive been really negative!

[REE1993]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

Hopefully my last post wasn't too rude

Not at all, Sister!

[naraht]

As best as I can tell from what I've been able to find of GSS history, the 5 yeras after Alpha Phi Omega went co-ed were not good ones in terms of maintaining some of the active chapters. I just wanted you all to know.

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

[gamma_girl52]

The whole thread is out of control.

GrandAce#1, let me address you first by saying this. It may not be that the National Fraternity is trying to "get rid" of chapters but purely as an outside person looking in, IT DOES. When you have to literally put out a change of bylaws (a mandate) saying, "Either you get some females in the chapter or your charter is revoked", does that not look like "forcing" a chapter to adapt to something that might not work for them on that campus? You should go click on the link that was provided in the thread earlier. Initially, this only applied to TRANSFER students. Then it was expanded to include ALL students. All this for maybe about 4% of your chapters, and the members represent maybe about 2%? It just seems a bit much for me. Are these said chapters literally putting a "Alpha Phi Omega, NO GIRLS ALLOWED" sign up on their campus? Or did the National organization TRULY make an effort to understand why this was happening on that respective campus? It might be so on that campus where the women KNOW not to pledge an organization with "Fraternity" in the name. Also, what if this chapter did everything they could to promote this mandate and they STILL don't get any women? Should their charter be revoked then?

As far as your other statements, sister, you are preaching to the choir and we've already discussed just how much APO and GSS care about each other, which is little. However, let's not ignore the fact that there is a bond out there between APO and GSS. Now if you really want me to go there, let's not talk about how I see male AND female members of your fraternity trying to "be down" with the same culture that may have caused this mandate (i.e. calling each other "bruh" or using the call "Skeet", etc. which I only USED to see at an all-male chapter). So obviously there is something appealing about that culture to some of the members, particularly with black males that may have pledged at a co-ed chapter; so I also have to raise an eybrow when you say, "APO doesn't have to care". Are you sure?

It's not just with the fraternity. I see members of Gamma Sig doing the SAME THING. I don't want you to think that I know everything about your organization; I don't. But let's be real and recognize the changes that are occuring in both our organizations.

Soror Empress if you ever jump back in, I was able to speak to another soror and I understand your point much better now.

So I think the bottom line is this: Alpha Phi Omega is doing their thing obviously. You all wouldn't be the largest fraternity in the world if you weren't. But Gamma Sigma Sigma, we are coming into our own, we stand on our own as well. Neither needs the other, but there is a connection that you can choose to support or not.

[GrandAce#1]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

The whole thread is out of control.

GrandAce#1, let me address you first by saying this. It may not be that the National Fraternity is trying to "get rid" of chapters but purely as an outside person looking in, IT DOES. When you have to literally put out a change of bylaws (a mandate) saying, "Either you get some females in the chapter or your charter is revoked", does that not look like "forcing" a chapter to adapt to something that might not work for them on that campus? You should go click on the link that was provided in the thread earlier. Initially, this only applied to TRANSFER students. Then it was expanded to include ALL students. All this for maybe about 4% of your chapters, and the members represent maybe about 2%? It just seems a bit much for me. Are these said chapters literally putting a "Alpha Phi Omega, NO GIRLS ALLOWED" sign up on their campus? Or did the National organization TRULY make an effort to understand why this was happening on that respective campus? It might be so on that campus where the women KNOW not to pledge an organization with "Fraternity" in the name. Also, what if this chapter did everything they could to promote this mandate and they STILL don't get any women? Should their charter be revoked then?

As far as your other statements, sister, you are preaching to the choir and we've already discussed just how much APO and GSS care about each other, which is little. However, let's not ignore the fact that there is a bond out there between APO and GSS. Now if you really want me to go there, let's not talk about how I see male AND female members of your fraternity trying to "be down" with the same culture that may have caused this mandate (i.e. calling each other "bruh" or using the call "Skeet", etc. which I only USED to see at an all-male chapter). So obviously there is something appealing about that culture to some of the members, particularly with black males that may have pledged at a co-ed chapter; so I also have to raise an eybrow when you say, "APO doesn't have to care". Are you sure?

It's not just with the fraternity. I see members of Gamma Sig doing the SAME THING. I don't want you to think that I know everything about your organization; I don't. But let's be real and recognize the changes that are occuring in both our organizations.

Soror Empress if you ever jump back in, I was able to speak to another soror and I understand your point much better now.

So I think the bottom line is this: Alpha Phi Omega is doing their thing obviously. You all wouldn't be the largest fraternity in the world if you weren't. But Gamma Sigma Sigma, we are coming into our own, we stand on our own as well. Neither needs the other, but there is a connection that you can choose to support or not.

I agree, it sucks they literally had to write that information out specifically. And I also agree that if a chapter cannot convince any females to join their chapter should not be revoked. I have no issues with all male chapters that show respect to all bruhs. Not at all. And "bruh" actually is in used in any fraternity to address members, including co-ed one's. It's not exclusive to all male APO org's. I've known numerous co-ed org's to use the term since everyone is a "brother". I say bruh for short sometimes.

I'm not disagreeing with how it looks. Hell, I even was shocked they actually wrote the mandate in that manner. The point I sought to make was "what it was" so that those who only knew what it looked like could also know what it was. That's it. For the choir members, I was not trying to preach to you at all. Forgive me if you felt you were being "beat over the head with the bible", lol. My bad.

Did the organization truly make effort? Not sure. In my opinion more could've been done. But at the same time I do see why they played the hand they did. It's hard to keep trying to be open and understanding about something when the people who are in it don't want to be completely honest with the organization about the issues at hand. Only time will tell if this mandate was a good idea or not. Even though some of these school don't put up signs that say "no girls allowed", unfortunately some do say that to females trying to join, literally. That's moreso the issues the Frat has with the all male chapters...its based in respect for the brotherhood and organizational standards.

Ditto about the call thing...I'm not even gonna go there. People do as they so choose, even if it makes them look foolish. "APO doesn't have to care" was in reference to the national level choosing to do or not to do something based on the way it will affect GSS, and that in turn was directed at a particular comment, not your organization.

BTW...I'm not saying members of APO and GSS don't care about one another...just not on the national level. I care a lot about GSS members and I have much respect for the organization...SHOUT OUT TO THE CHARTERING OF HOWARD'S CHAPTER...THEY'RE OFFICIAL!!

[Empress0105]

Let me go by saying my name is Terri White. 16-Alpha Eta-2004.


*I* am a reactivating member of GSS at howard (I'm glad some of you know my LSs)...in fact *I* was the reactivating president. *I* personally was told by both male and female members of APO that I would be beat up if I conintued with this, and *I* stood outside of my interest meeting listening to letter clad APO chicks tell me my org was going to fail. I watched as the same org that had just faced flack from the Alpha and Ques cause flack for me and my LSs....it's funny how time forgets....I know names and specific events, if you like I can PM you and tell you.


but


second fiddle to APO sweethearts?? maybe you haven't talked to your own alumni recently, but to be a APO sweetheart pretty much was a stepping stone to do gamma sig or a D9 (as so many of the non D9 at Howard have become...don't front, you know why so many people ruch Delta Sigma Pi and Phi Sigma Pi.....or join campus pals or circle k....etc)i don't know what warped twisted history you all have been fed, but that was not the way sweethearts worked back in the day at HU...REGARDLESS of the org, so your statement is null void. question, does that mean that our noble nights of maroon and white were trumping in on your alumni?? cause there are SEVERAL NKOMAW pictures in Bison yearbooks...and we still have Knights to this day (in fact, more than 30)

maybe you should visit mooreland springarn and just look at old year books....better yet, ask swygert about his days as an a phi que...cause MY chapter charterers and alumni have many pictures and scrapbooks showing him and countless other bruhs at picnics and service projects TOGETHER with gamma sig....the main project they worked on was volunteering at a now defunct orphanage that used to be near campus...but then again, that's becaue alumni from ALL generations of Alpha Eta come back and support us....50s 60s 70s and 80s......Alpha Eta is the chapter that brough GSS it's first (if not only) African American "Woman of the Year", and notable soror Jessye Norman (SP64) BEFORE she did SAI or AKA. so please, as a howardite, don't ever question Gamma Sigs role and function on HUs campus...cause if you WANT the history lesson, I will gladly guide you to our next informational...


please, i know PLENTY of APO chicks (hell my cousin was one), and those that were my friends before we joined greek stuff are still my friends.....but i have heard both men and women in APO downplay GSS and the culture of being a gamma sig ever since high school (when I was talking to a young man who was an APO from another local school...see you are gonna have me log onto my old collegeclub account and remember his name!!) so yeah, I give APO the sideways glance when it comes to co-ed ness...I still remember a very specific APO chic who contacted our national officers trying to say we were wearing the shield as a colony (good thing I talked to sharon almost everyday so she knew that as bogus) hell...even when one of them became Pan Hell, she and her anti-GSS recruits talked mess on us in the edcation sessions of her D9 org....cause SEVERAL of my friends on that line told me about that.....


for all the men on here....the ones who call me and my sorors "soror" and want us to call them "bruh"...you can't play both sides of the fence...you can't be all about 25/52 but then tell us that you don't have to care about us in the next breath....you can't roll up to the picnic sans female brothers where you know chic APOs will get the weird looks, but then tell us we are wrong for thinking we have a bond with ya'll....i would have no problem calling a chic my bruh....but when that same chic will go and tell a prospect that GSS isn't anything, then yeah, i have an issue with that. i had one person tell me that my call was a ghetto remix of an AKA and Delta call.....yeah, and she was zeta phi. and for everyone who says we aren't officially brother and sisters, yeah we know....but tell that to the deltas and the ques, and the alphas and akas, sai and sinfonians.......just cuase there isn't an official bond doesn't mean a brother and sisterhood doesn't exsist...maybe just not at YOUR school


and like i said.....this APO topic was posted in my GSS forum (that someone obviously thought meant something to us as the org that isn't affilated and you all don't care about remember), so even though my opinion doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, when it gets posted in my neck of the woods, expect an answer.....

[GrandAce#1]

Ms. White,

1. I respect the fact that you are a rechartering member. I do remember the name. I as well am a rechartering member of APO at Howard.

2. I respect your opinions on the subject matter. All of your opinions have caused me to think. The reason I decide to join in the discussion.

3. Never said that *I* do not care about your org or that *members* of APO don't. Where and what way did I question your history or importance...especially on HU's campus? I made a statement, and it wasn't negative towards you at that. I lived in Moorland Springarn. Very familiar with all that you speak of, including the GSS history because parts of it was important to ZPhi history and rechartering. I used that analogy to compare GSS and female bruhs...us being 2nd fiddle to you. Yes, sweethearts tended to become GSS or D9 members, but out to the mouths of brothers, including Swygert, Togo West and Dean Keene (I'm sure you remember him if you rechartered, he was still at HU in 2004), they said sweethearts were more of their sisters and sometimes became their "official sisters" (GSS members). I was refering to the RELATIONSHIP, not the stepping stone, importance, or anything else besides that.


4. Yes, I hate that fact that you all went through that with brothers of zeta phi. That was irresponsible and disrespectful and the things I do know about, I voiced my disagreement. Feel free to contact me anytime about events. I'm always interested. Maybe a deeper understanding will help me prevent any future drama and possibly create an organizational relationship with ALL members of both org's. If you want my facebook info, feel free to IM me. I'm better with notes on there.

5. I do acknowledge the bond between the organizations. My reference to it not being official was used to support a fact, not downplay or disrespect the bond the org's have.

6. HUGE COSIGN on why people join those org's...I definitely know that ;-)

7. As far as I'm concerned, we are connected org's in retrospect of the foundations we stand on and our interconnections. The issues stem, once again, from each side (female bruhs and gss) being played against one another and told different things by the other. Questions: when will it end? I personally would like to see the day ALL members recognize both organizations as a whole....we could be a mighty force if we wholeheartedly supported one another. But I digress...

Bottom line...........

I have no "beef" with GSS, my comments on here we not meant to "beef", and everything I have stated I have supported as such but yet in still I get replies directed as me having "beef" or trying to be "disrepectful". NOT. THE. CASE. My only beef is with APO male brothers who choose to disrepect me. What could I possibly gain from disliking the GSS organization? NOTHING. I know the things male members try to feed me are BS, and that was because I had a relationship with GSS members on campus who I was friends with and were real with me in every way.

Is there anything else I have stated that you question or would like me to clear up that anyone on here has perceived as negative? I wouldn't what you all thinking that I'm trying to be negative when that's far from where I'm coming from. I do have the tendency to sound like and A.Hole when I'm simply stating facts or asking questions.

On a better note...Good luck in all that you do and I hope GSS does get to where they wanna go, and beyond. And yes, I'm sincere and that comes from the heart.