Real World Denver

[shinerbock]

Well, and i'm not justifying his use. but I still stand my idea that people will say anything to cut to the core of someone in a time of high emotion or anger. Its offensive, but I still don't think the kid is a racist (although I don't like him from what i've seen).

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I watched an episode today. While I thought that huge guy went a little over the top, those 2 black guys may be the coolest in the history of the show. However, it is a little lame how half the house has those alter-egos they talk about, get a life.

I'll have to catch the rerun.

The clip I saw showed the Hulk guy being real animated, which always makes situations escalate.

This cast is lame.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

Yep. I was irritated with Tyrie. He got in Davis' face, told Davis not to put his finger in his face and then put HIS finger in HIS face! But, Tyrie eventually walked away numerous times and Davis then went too far. WAY too far. I'm kind of glad Tyrie and the other guy from Howard forgave him though. I liked Davis. I hate that he had to go and call Tyrie a nigger...changed my view of him.

I'm wondering what REALLY happened, because you know they always edit things. It made Tyrie look really bad in the beginning, and if they showed it really how it was, Tyrie had no right to get all gangsta on Davis. Davis was drunk. Have you ever tried to seriously talk reasonably with a drunk guy? A little overboard there Tyrie.

Disclaimer... That still doesn't give Davis an excuse to use the N word.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, and i'm not justifying his use. but I still stand my idea that people will say anything to cut to the core of someone in a time of high emotion or anger. Its offensive, but I still don't think the kid is a racist (although I don't like him from what i've seen).

I saw a clip of that. Yeah, he was angry but I firmly believe that emotions (whether natural or brought about by alcohol) bring out people's true feelings.

To say the word to the person's face means he was trying to cut to the core of that person. To say the word on the phone to a friend means those were his true feelings (brought out by anger).

Of course this would bring about the same old debate but I still stay away from declaring racist so quickly.

[shinerbock]

The way they took him back was pretty normal though. It wasn't the typical MTV thing of finding the angriest black person in the US and putting them on TV. I know a lot of people watch it for the drama, I like the casts which seem like half-decent people.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I'm wondering what REALLY happened, because you know they always edit things. It made Tyrie look really bad in the beginning, and if they showed it really how it was, Tyrie had no right to get all gangsta on Davis. Davis was drunk. Have you ever tried to seriously talk reasonably with a drunk guy? A little overboard there Tyrie.

Disclaimer... That still doesn't give Davis an excuse to use the N word.

This is one reality show instance where I'd love to see the unedited footage.

I think Davis is cute.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

The way they took him back was pretty normal though. It wasn't the typical MTV thing of finding the angriest black person in the US and putting them on TV. I know a lot of people watch it for the drama, I like the casts which seem like half-decent people.

LOL. Well, at least he has more than an angry side to him.

[shinerbock]

I mean, not to get deep into this again, but I think its an interesting conversation. I just don't think an isolated use of a racial/gender/sexual slur makes you a racist/sexist/homophobe. I think for most people, theres some point where something happens to you and something like a slur or a generalization comes to mind. Its happened to me, and usually its because I get so angry that just thinking "you motherf*****" doesn't have a strong enough effect. I agree that true feelings sometimes come out in heightened periods of anger or other emotion, but sometimes you're just so angry or so emotional that you just need to dig deeper than normal. I mean, its not like they should ignore he said it, it just annoys me when something like that happens and people on the show are like, "well, he's from the south, maybe he can stay here and lose some of that ignorance." Using racial slurs doesn't make you ignorant, neither does being prejudiced. It makes you insensitive, and many people like that probably are ignorant, but they aren't one and the same.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I mean, not to get deep into this again, but I think its an interesting conversation. I just don't think an isolated use of a racial/gender/sexual slur makes you a racist/sexist/homophobe.

Do you normally debate yourself? Didn't I already say that I don't make racist accusations so quickly? LOL.

But since you brought it up :

Let the record show that being a "racist" is not always the same thing as "racism" as in the system of racism that all racial slurs and discriminatory behaviors perpetuate. So Davis might not be a "racist" but his use of that term could arguably be "racism." Similarly, you might not to be a chauvinist or sexist man. But using certain language and feeding into differential treatment is sexism because it keeps the gender structure going at the individual, interactional, and structural levels. Same applies to people who claim not to be homophobic but use certain terms or reinforce certain ideologies and behaviors. No matter what the rationale for the use is.

ETA: Slurs and prejudice are signs of ignorance. Ignorance means you're unaware of the consequences or don't care about the consequences. Usually the latter but more openminded people (myself not included) think the former is more common.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Do people normally put their gay chapter members on the bullseye?

No, i'm not saying that......and i'm just going by persoal opinion........but 1.) gay guys are usually easy to spot/point out and 2.) I can't see SAE at Vanderbilt giving a bid to a gay guy, unless he just kept it from them. Oh well, not that big of a deal.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by macallan25

No, i'm not saying that......and i'm just going by persoal opinion........but 1.) gay guys are usually easy to spot/point out and 2.) I can't see SAE at Vanderbilt giving a bid to a gay guy, unless he just kept it from them. Oh well, not that big of a deal.

I understand and that's what I thought you meant. I know it's not a big deal but two points:

1) You can only spot/point out the obvious gay guys based on your notions of what gay is/gay isn't. Don't forget the gay guys who have yet to a) come out to themselves; b) come out to other people; and/or c) don't fit the "obvious gay guy" notion.

2) Once again, it's not always obvious who is gay. Also, gay guys would probably give bids to gay guys.

[shinerbock]

ig·no·rance Pronunciation (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

I don't think racial slurs make you ignorant. I'm not accusing you of doing anything, I'm mostly referring to the reaction on the show. I think racial slurs can be a sign of ignorance, but I don't think one equals the other. You don't think its possible for people to be well educated and informed about other races/cultures/lifestyles, but still think less of them? I think its perfectly possible. Its also possible that you'll understand that such terms offend, and yet still use them. Ignorance is a term that gets thrown out a lot, often in place of insensitivity.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

ig·no·rance Pronunciation (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

I don't think racial slurs make you ignorant. I'm not accusing you of doing anything, I'm mostly referring to the reaction on the show. I think racial slurs can be a sign of ignorance, but I don't think one equals the other. You don't think its possible for people to be well educated and informed about other races/cultures/lifestyles, but still think less of them? I think its perfectly possible. Its also possible that you'll understand that such terms offend, and yet still use them. Ignorance is a term that gets thrown out a lot, often in place of insensitivity.

You made reference to my post so I interpreted your comments accordingly.

It reads like you didn't read or understand what I posted about ignorance.

Either way, to reiterate, my definition applies to an unawareness of the consequences of slurs and differential treatment OR not caring of the consequences. Sure, people can be fully aware and not care, which is also ignorant based on my definition.

Insensitivity = not giving a damn = ignorance

[Phasad1913]

I think with Davis (as with Michael Richards, for that matter), his saying "I'm not going to stay here and be afraid because some nigger wants to kill me" or whatever he said, was in essence a statement of "I'm angry at you and I know I can say that as a white person and really hurt you or get to you". He was using his status as a white person and his sense of anger and/or intimidation toward Tyrie to really use that word and cut to Tyries and in a larger sociological context "this black person's" core. I think its a simple as that. He is from Georgia and he probably did grow up around whites who came right out and used the word nigger, coon and all the other slurs all the time. They all knew the word, its history and what it meant and used it because they could. I am pretty sure of this. It's not that big of a deal. As I have said before, racism in America is common. To pick and choose and go back and forth over whether the boy is or is not a racist or harbors racist views or yada yada yada is a waste of time. He probably is, it wouldn't be such a shocker if he was. That's what I think people do not want to face: that racism is common. As I indicated in my first post on this thread, so what? I mean, if he is, fine. That's him. I'm sure both Tyrie and the other guy (from Howard) has seen and been around racist people before. Doesn't mean they have to cross their arms and pout for the rest of the season. They can say, which is obviously what they did say, "hey man, you said it, i've heard worse, you have some problems and you need to deal with them within yourself, but I don't really want you to go. It's not that big of a deal". That's what it seems like they were saying to him and that is basically how I feel about the word. Some white person uses it, it pisses me off, of course, but its out there and is used every day. You can't act like the world is ending everytime someone calls someone else (or you) that word. Realistically, if the word was removed by some extraterrestrial force tomorrow, racism will still be here and will still be a problem so my view is screw that word and all who use it. Get over it and move on because moaning about it obviously hasn't changed anything.

And yeah, Davis was kind of cute. Its a shame that he's gay. Men don't deserve to have a guy with that kind of a chest and body. A woman knows what to do with all that.

[shinerbock]

I didn't read the whole thing, sounds reasonable.

I disagree- Not giving a damn=/= ignorance. You can say it does, but that would just be your personal definition, not the true one.