Real World Denver

shinerbock · #1 12-08-2006, 01:46 AM

ig·no·rance Pronunciation (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

I don't think racial slurs make you ignorant. I'm not accusing you of doing anything, I'm mostly referring to the reaction on the show. I think racial slurs can be a sign of ignorance, but I don't think one equals the other. You don't think its possible for people to be well educated and informed about other races/cultures/lifestyles, but still think less of them? I think its perfectly possible. Its also possible that you'll understand that such terms offend, and yet still use them. Ignorance is a term that gets thrown out a lot, often in place of insensitivity.

DSTCHAOS · #2 12-08-2006, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

ig·no·rance Pronunciation (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

I don't think racial slurs make you ignorant. I'm not accusing you of doing anything, I'm mostly referring to the reaction on the show. I think racial slurs can be a sign of ignorance, but I don't think one equals the other. You don't think its possible for people to be well educated and informed about other races/cultures/lifestyles, but still think less of them? I think its perfectly possible. Its also possible that you'll understand that such terms offend, and yet still use them. Ignorance is a term that gets thrown out a lot, often in place of insensitivity.

You made reference to my post so I interpreted your comments accordingly.

It reads like you didn't read or understand what I posted about ignorance.

Either way, to reiterate, my definition applies to an unawareness of the consequences of slurs and differential treatment OR not caring of the consequences. Sure, people can be fully aware and not care, which is also ignorant based on my definition.

Insensitivity = not giving a damn = ignorance

Phasad1913 · #3 12-08-2006, 01:01 PM

I think with Davis (as with Michael Richards, for that matter), his saying "I'm not going to stay here and be afraid because some nigger wants to kill me" or whatever he said, was in essence a statement of "I'm angry at you and I know I can say that as a white person and really hurt you or get to you". He was using his status as a white person and his sense of anger and/or intimidation toward Tyrie to really use that word and cut to Tyries and in a larger sociological context "this black person's" core. I think its a simple as that. He is from Georgia and he probably did grow up around whites who came right out and used the word nigger, coon and all the other slurs all the time. They all knew the word, its history and what it meant and used it because they could. I am pretty sure of this. It's not that big of a deal. As I have said before, racism in America is common. To pick and choose and go back and forth over whether the boy is or is not a racist or harbors racist views or yada yada yada is a waste of time. He probably is, it wouldn't be such a shocker if he was. That's what I think people do not want to face: that racism is common. As I indicated in my first post on this thread, so what? I mean, if he is, fine. That's him. I'm sure both Tyrie and the other guy (from Howard) has seen and been around racist people before. Doesn't mean they have to cross their arms and pout for the rest of the season. They can say, which is obviously what they did say, "hey man, you said it, i've heard worse, you have some problems and you need to deal with them within yourself, but I don't really want you to go. It's not that big of a deal". That's what it seems like they were saying to him and that is basically how I feel about the word. Some white person uses it, it pisses me off, of course, but its out there and is used every day. You can't act like the world is ending everytime someone calls someone else (or you) that word. Realistically, if the word was removed by some extraterrestrial force tomorrow, racism will still be here and will still be a problem so my view is screw that word and all who use it. Get over it and move on because moaning about it obviously hasn't changed anything.

And yeah, Davis was kind of cute. Its a shame that he's gay. Men don't deserve to have a guy with that kind of a chest and body. A woman knows what to do with all that.

shinerbock · #4 12-08-2006, 01:07 PM

I didn't read the whole thing, sounds reasonable.

I disagree- Not giving a damn=/= ignorance. You can say it does, but that would just be your personal definition, not the true one.

DSTCHAOS · #5 12-08-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I disagree- Not giving a damn=/= ignorance. You can say it does, but that would just be your personal definition, not the true one.

What is "true" is always socially constructed and it isn't just a personal definition when I'm not the only one who agrees with it. Instead of being stuck on words and semantics (since you always want to discuss "racist" and "ignorant," etc.) you should focus on the logic and concepts behind the words.

Phasad1913: Davis is the only attractive one in the house. Tyrie was wrong for coming at him like that, especially if D is drunk. It was just a really dumb altercation all the way around.

shinerbock · #6 12-08-2006, 01:50 PM

I understand the logic behind the words. Ignorance overall, in a broad reaching and commonly understood definition, refers to someone who is uninformed, assuming, etc. It is often used as a degrading term, implying a lack of culture or education. Defining as insensitivity is a stretch, in my opinion.

There is a great South Park about people using the term in situations where it doesn't apply. The Michael Jackson one, its great.

DSTCHAOS · #7 12-08-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Defining as insensitivity is a stretch, in my opinion.

Cool.

Does whether or not ignorance includes insensitivity make or break anything, though? That's my point.

WhirlwindTNX · #8 12-08-2006, 11:24 PM

Okay.......so MTV just created a new stereotype......

shinerbock · #9 12-09-2006, 03:36 AM

It does make or break this situation. I'm just talking about the situation on the show. I think you can be cruel, insensitive and just plain wrong, without being ignorant. I just get annoyed at the whole, "oh well he's from the south, he's ignorant, thats why he used that word" thing. If the kid had really picked up such things living in the south, I imagine he wouldnt be gay.