wow..... - Page 2

DeltAlum · #16 05-03-2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
Lets not forget that these soldiers are also reservists, not your full time active duty military. While they may have recieved basic instruction, they aren't subject to the full POW training that active duty troops recieve. At least not that i'm aware of.

You're absolutely right on this point. The general officer who was in charge of several prisons pointed that out. Although one of the soldiers interviewed is a corrections officer (In KY maybe) and should have known better -- even he said he asked for instructions and didn't get them.

It might in instructive to ask why they didn't get instructions, especially after the huge problem we had during the first Mid-East war with the number of prisoners we didn't expect. A lesson overlooked, I guess.

#17 05-03-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by swissmiss04
That is true. However, if they haven't been trained in POW procedures they really ought not to have any sort of power/supervision over them. Common sense would dictate that you just don't treat people like that.

Common sense would dictate you don't treat people like that, but one has to look no farther than the Risk Reduction forum to see people(probably a lot the same ages as some of these soldiers) doing similar things to pledges/brothers/sisters, etc.

in the end, the responsibilty lies with the officers. Regardless of the status of the soldiers, the officers either didn't do a good job instructing them of their mission or supervising it.

Kitso
KS 361

Peaches-n-Cream · #18 05-03-2004, 01:32 PM

Some of these pictures look fake to me.

Here is a link to the 60 Minutes story.

DeltAlum · #19 05-03-2004, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
Some of these pictures look fake to me.

Here is a link to the 60 Minutes story.

That's what Kitso pointed out. Of course if even one of them is real, there's a problem.

The aformentioned general who was in charge is saying that she got no instructions either. Might seem like a general officer should no better, though.

RACooper · #20 05-03-2004, 09:14 PM

Okay I have seen a number of stories (media) where the soldiers and officers involved complained that they recieved no instruction on the care of prisoners..... however even the biggest morons would realize that beating or sodomizing a prisoner is wrong (I hope).

James · #21 05-03-2004, 10:20 PM

Funny, but I never needed special instructions not to make men under my responsibility blow each other . . but hey thats me.

Maybe a lot of you needed a carefully worded diagram on correct behavior? Small words?

Instruction, give me a break.

Rudey · #22 05-03-2004, 10:22 PM

Perhaps if they weren't so homophobic, to the point that gays are executed, then homosexual acting wouldn't be that awful.

Do you think if we let these men go back to their villages they'd be stoned or axed in the head in some sort of honor killing? Discuss.

-Rudey

dekeguy · #23 05-04-2004, 06:07 PM

What in God's green earth was going on there? Nothing in my experience could even suggest that such things could happen AND under the jurisdiction of a General Officer who claims she was unaware of these incidents????!!!!????
In my outfit I made sure I knew exactly what was going on and I set very clear instructions on how we were to treat any prisoners. I always stressed "use common sense" be firm but be correct and do not under any circumstances give anyone a chance to make us look like the bad guys. What happened to the concept that is supposed to be written in stone that "the Commander is RESPONSIBLE for all that his soldiers do or fail to do." These idiots are unfit to wear the uniform of their country. No instructions my ass. Any damn fool knows that we do not mistreat prisoners, and then take pictures of these incidents. In the days of the Old Army that General would be left alone in the library with a loaded pistol and expected to reclaim lost honor. This one would probably try to hock the pistol. I am sick at heart that American soldiers could act in this manner, and I am revolted by the derreliction of duty of all officers and NCOs who had any knowledge of this. To say it was done at the urging of Intel types cuts no ice. A real soldier holds the power of death and learns very quickly to treat it wisely and wield it honorably. Those people are dishonored and damned lucky that they do not fall under my command. My God, do they begin to be conscious of the implications and ramefications of their actions?

starang21 · #24 05-04-2004, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
Funny, but I never needed special instructions not to make men under my responsibility blow each other . . but hey thats me.

Maybe a lot of you needed a carefully worded diagram on correct behavior? Small words?

Instruction, give me a break.

CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS:

DON'T COLOR OUTSIDE THE LINES

The1calledTKE · #25 05-06-2004, 10:32 PM

New photos revealed

AGDee · #26 05-06-2004, 11:04 PM

I heard the tail end of a CBS news radio report that members of Congress (some from each party) were calling for Rumsfeld's resignation over this.

I don't like Rumsfeld, but I'm not sure he should be held responsible for the actions of some nutso soldiers out there.

Dee

DeltAlum · #27 05-07-2004, 12:05 AM

Dee,

I don't much like Rumsfeld either, but he's the man in charge -- unless you want to go all the way up to The President.

I don't think this is a good time to change the Secretary of Defense, though.

RACooper · #28 05-07-2004, 09:05 AM

I think the reason for people gunning for Rummy is that it smacks of a cover-up, and that he has been less than forthcoming towards congress...

On another note.... how many soldiers are facing criminal charges? Last I saw it was 6.... but in the latest photos I count more than six troops in them....

DeltAlum · #29 05-07-2004, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
IOn another note.... how many soldiers are facing criminal charges? Last I saw it was 6.... but in the latest photos I count more than six troops in them....

The investigation is "ongoing."

Rudey · #30 05-07-2004, 11:29 AM

"One of al-Sadr's senior aides told worshippers in Basra that anyone capturing a female British soldier can keep her as a slave. Waving an assault rifle, Sheik Abdul-Sattar al-Bahadli also said anyone capturing a British soldier will receive about $350 and anyone killing one will receive $150."

These people, too, "deserve human rights". These same people that were asked by the rest of the Shiite factions to stop holding them hostage and leave their cities.

-Rudey