Posting Badges from Ebay

[wptw]

Hey Brian, I respect your opinion. And actually I do understand. In general, I would also prefer that my badges stay within my GLO instead of going to a non-member. Honestly I would. But this just isn’t the way to go about it.

I’m not arguing the right and wrong of collecting badges (not this time anyway). So put that debate aside for the moment. I am merely pointing out one thing: (generally speaking, now) Adding more bidders does NOTHING to keep badges out of collectors hands. In fact, all evidence shows the contrary. In general, more bidders drive the price beyond the reach of most members and indeed beyond the reach of even the national HQ. But collectors keep paying the high prices. Heck, you’ve been complaining about this very thing all over GC for months: “I can’t afford to pay as much as the collectors pay”. Do the math yourselves – it’s not hard to collect the data (number of pins at auction, closing price, number of bids, collector vs. non-collector winning). So if these “mass alerts” don’t improve your chances of outbidding the collectors, why would you keep doing something that encourages dealers to put MORE pins on ebay at HIGHER prices? Do you just enjoy the sensation of shooting yourselves in the foot?

33girl’s comment is very wise. Private messages to designated people make sure the GLO is aware their badge is at auction, and give them the opportunity to rescue it without driving up the prices unnecessarily.

Lastly, it’s really irrelevant whether or not you want to hear my opinion. I’m a legitimate member of this forum just like you are, and like you I’m expressing my opinion in a respectful and constructive manner. So feel free to scroll past my posts, but I will certainly keep jumping onto this dead horse whenever it miraculously staggers to its feet.

[If only real life were as easy as scrolling past the opinions you disagree with. Clamping hands over ears in the face of a differing opinion only perpetuates the stereotype that all greeks are supposed to think and act exactly alike.]

As I told Shadokat, maybe you would all like it better to have things the way they were only a few years ago, when ebay was but a glint in a young man’s eye and just a few evil collectors like me were pleading with dealers to sell us the pins instead of throwing them in the melting pot. I’m sure your brother from Amherst would have appreciated having his badge made into one more big gaudy nugget ring on QVC.

wptw

[shadokat]

Thanks lauradev and dzrose Brian, I'm sorry you lost your badge, but to another brother is ok

wptw told me he would give all of our badges back to our national HQs...as soon as he dies. How noble.

[Tom Earp]

wptw, I can understand what you are saying about collectors! I did collect certain plates and statues at one time till they got to expenseve to buy direct! I think what everyone is saying that we all have a very deep feeling for OUR Badges and what to keep with in our Organizations!

While I cannot see a collector melting them down for money, most of the jewels and gold are not worth the price of the Badge!
You say you are a GLO, if you do not mind me asking, which one? P E-M if you like! I will keep it between us!

[wptw]

Thanks Tom for the levelheaded post. Deep feeling for badges and the desire to keep them in the family is something I understand, appreciate and agree with. It's not the goal I disagree with, it's Shadokat's method.

I will PM you as requested.

Yes, most collectors have made provisions to donate their collections either to their own GLO HQ, to each of the respective organizations, or individually to other collectors who are members of that GLO. So yes, I have made arrangements for my pins. Especially for my DPhiE's, which thanks to Shadokat's snotty dig will now be personally melted down by my executor.



(before someone gets their knickers in a twist, I was only kidding about melting the DPhiE badges)

[shadokat]

It wasn't a dig. It was your words....as I stated earlier, I'm going to crawl back under the rock from where I came, as I am no longer interested in being the subject of wptw's argument.

[33girl]

Hooray! Finally a topic to replace racial issues as "discussion that goes around and around and keeps covering the same ground and never goes anywhere"!!!!

[BrianMUDU]

shadokat,

Just for the record, that badge I was referring to did not go to another brother At least as far as I know. I looked at the winners feedback and he had pins and pledge pins from various fraternities.

[ZZ-kai-]

Yeah, it really sucks that 'our' badges are on eBay, and there are 'pin collectors' out ther buying them. We need to realize though however, that many/most pin collectors are greek, and they are collecting them because of their meanings, values and just mainly because they like them.

We cannot freak out everytime a new badge is on eBay, because we will all get ulcers and go to the hospital, and eventually get a gray hair or two from it.

Question for you all: If there were a badge on ebay, stating "Alpha Lambda Phi badge - 1842" and there were no bids on it. And you think, "Alpha Lambda Phi, what the hell is that?" So, you go into the actual auction and realize, "Man-oh-man, its really an Alpha Delta Phi badge from 1842". Would you bid on it?

Shit yeah you would!

PS, not all the people who so called 'own' these pins know what they are, what they mean, know which organization they belong to...etc. I have seen many pins at Antique stores and garage sales, so they do not realize that they should be donated/sold back to the respective HQ. Educating members where their pin should go is great, but when they are dead, they really can't package it up and send it on its merry way.....and a lot of the time, their families don't know that either.

We need to get over it, because the more people are worried about it, the more the pins will sell for.

That is all.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by ZZ-kai-
Question for you all: If there were a badge on ebay, stating "Alpha Lambda Phi badge - 1842" and there were no bids on it. And you think, "Alpha Lambda Phi, what the hell is that?" So, you go into the actual auction and realize, "Man-oh-man, its really an Alpha Delta Phi badge from 1842". Would you bid on it?

Shit yeah you would!

Hell no I wouldn't.

The only badges I'm interested in purchasing are Delta Zeta badges, and I bid on them with the intent of either A) locating the owner to see if the badge was lost or stolen or B) returning it to National Headquarters.

Because I realize how strongly my National HQ feels about who should be allowed to wear/own a Delta Zeta badge, I have a deep respect for other Greek organizations who have similar feelings about their badges. For this reason, I would NEVER purchase another GLO's badge. I don't care how old it is, how many precious stones it contains, or whose initials are engraved on the back.

To me, if a person is going to publicly call herself Greek and profess to love her organization and respect all other GLOs, then that person should never purchase the badge of another Greek org just for the purpose of collecting. If she loves and respects Greek Life as much as she claims, then she wouldn't commit an act that goes against the wishes and written regulations of nearly every GLO in existence. Whether those regulations stand up in a court of law or not is completely beside the point. The sole issue here is respect.

As for the Greek pin collectors who say they're collecting badges in order to "save" them from being melted down... Why don't they go a step further and REALLY "save" them by returning them to their rightful owners - National Headquarters? By doing so, they'll make an organization very happy and, in return, that person and his/her organization will gain some added respect because he/she has done the "sisterly" or "brotherly" thing. Talk about some great PR!

[SSS1365]

I find the whole idea of pin collectors quite irritating. Of course I understand that there is nothing I can do about it when a badge from my sorority is up for auction, but it's frustrating all the same when you see that the winning bidder is not a member of your GLO. I don't think I'll ever understand why a person would want a badge to whose organization they were never a member. I earned my badge by learning what it means, and it can never mean anything to someone who has never learned it. And I assure you that if I ever did purchase another GLO's badge, it would be for the purpose of returning it to that GLO.

What I think even a lot of members sometimes fail to understand is that that badge belongs to their national organization. I was told during my pledge period that when I die, my badge is to either be sent to nationals or buried with me. And when a member terminates her membership, she must return the badge to nationals. I KNOW that MANY, if not all, other national GLOs have the same policies, so there's no excuse for these pins to keep popping up on ebay. I don't care what excuses the collectors come up with, I will NEVER understand why they want them!

[ZZ-kai-]

The only time I have heard of the badge having to be returned to the National Office, or is property of the National Office, is with a few select sororities. Although, its not like that is everyday conversation, so I am sure it is more standard than I think.

I do not believe the Badge of Beta Theta Pi is General Fraternity property, therefore our badge can be handed down, donated, buried, made into a necklace/ring...etc.

I still think people need to get over the whole pin thing on eBay. I think its great that people want to save pins and send them to HQ and all, but lets be realistic. There is just too much of it going on, and a lot less rich people willing to throw up literally tens of thousands of dollars to rescue them all.

No hard feelings, but this is like the Taliban taking on the US of A.....a battle that cannot be won.

Originally posted by SSS1365
I find the whole idea of pin collectors quite irritating. Of course I understand that there is nothing I can do about it when a badge from my sorority is up for auction, but it's frustrating all the same when you see that the winning bidder is not a member of your GLO. I don't think I'll ever understand why a person would want a badge to whose organization they were never a member. I earned my badge by learning what it means, and it can never mean anything to someone who has never learned it. And I assure you that if I ever did purchase another GLO's badge, it would be for the purpose of returning it to that GLO.

What I think even a lot of members sometimes fail to understand is that that badge belongs to their national organization. I was told during my pledge period that when I die, my badge is to either be sent to nationals or buried with me. And when a member terminates her membership, she must return the badge to nationals. I KNOW that MANY, if not all, other national GLOs have the same policies, so there's no excuse for these pins to keep popping up on ebay. I don't care what excuses the collectors come up with, I will NEVER understand why they want them!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by wptw

Yes, most collectors have made provisions to donate their collections either to their own GLO HQ, to each of the respective organizations, or individually to other collectors who are members of that GLO. So yes, I have made arrangements for my pins. Especially for my DPhiE's, which thanks to Shadokat's snotty dig will now be personally melted down by my executor.



(before someone gets their knickers in a twist, I was only kidding about melting the DPhiE badges)

Hey, I don't wear knickers...they wouldn't go with my lovely DPhiE badge!

[Phi Gam man]

Originally posted by ZZ-kai-

I still think people need to get over the whole pin thing on eBay.

AMEN!!!!!

[wptw]

Dzrose93:
“If she loves and respects Greek Life as much as she claims, then she wouldn't commit an act that goes against the wishes and written regulations of nearly every GLO in existence.”

Wrong. GLOs who actually take a position on this issue are in the minority.


Dzrose93:
“As for the Greek pin collectors who say they're collecting badges in order to "save" them from being melted down... Why don't they go a step further and REALLY "save" them by returning them to their rightful owners - National Headquarters?”

You know, that is such an easy offhand “cocktail party” thing to say. Sure, everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too:

You want the badges saved from being melted down…
But you can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…
And your HQ can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…
And you won’t do the legwork to find the other 50% of “loose” badges that AREN’T on ebay…
So you expect collectors to do ALL of this for you with their own time and money? This sounds like Communism!

Let me see if I’ve got the message straight:
>>>Thank you, Mr. Collector, for spending piles of your own money and scores of Saturdays to rescue pins since before I was even born. But now there’s ebay, and we’re on top of it now. Besides which you weren’t really supposed to have those pins anyway you know, and even though you’ve spent a big chunk of your life preserving and studying GLO history, really you don’t understand what it means to be a respectful greek. So could you please just donate your entire collections that you’ve worked years to build back to the HQs, where they will likely collect dust in a storage room? Thanks. We can’t afford to reimburse you or anything, but just think what great PR it will be!<<<

Gack!

FYI, from time to time we actually do return pins to national HQs.


SSS1365:
“I earned my badge by learning what it means, and it can never mean anything to someone who has never learned it.”

You’re saying that all it takes to earn the Tri-Sig badge is learning what the symbols mean?
Funny - My GLO teaches me that earning the badge is a lifelong process, not something you do once. Maybe that’s the whole source of our difference of opinion about badges on ebay.


Cream:
“Hey, I don't wear knickers...they wouldn't go with my lovely DPhiE badge!”

But I think I’ve seen DPhiE knickers on ebay. Quite nice. Surely these would complement the badge, yes?

And trying to distract me by telling me you don’t wear knickers will not work!!

Umm…Crap, lost my train of thought. What the heck were we talking about?

Oh yeah…


ZZ-kai-:
“We need to get over it, because the more people are worried about it, the more the pins will sell for.”

Exactly.


wptw

[dzrose93]

Dzrose93:
“If she loves and respects Greek Life as much as she claims, then she wouldn't commit an act that goes against the wishes and written regulations of nearly every GLO in existence.”

wptw: Wrong. GLOs who actually take a position on this issue are in the minority.

Contact the National Headquarters of every national GLO and ask them if they like the fact that many of their badges are in the hands of non-members. Do you HONESTLY think that you're going to get a response back saying that they don't give a damn as to who is carrying around their badges? Please. If you really think those organizations don't care where their badges are, then you are seriously deluded. Maybe many of those organizations can't afford a badge rescue fund (although mine does), but that doesn't take away from the fact that they desire for their badges to remain in the hands of their members. I guess since the orgs can't outbid you each and every time on E-Bay, then that means that the GLOs don't deserve to have their badges back?

My problem with E-Bay badge collectors who are Greek lies in the fact that these people know better than anyone how important and symbolic badges are, yet they still bid against GLO members who are trying to save their badges.

If one of my sisters was trying to save a badge on E-Bay, and sent you an e-mail asking you to please not bid so that she could win the auction and return the badge to HQ, would you do the brotherly thing and bow to her wishes? If so, then I truly commend you, because there are many collectors who would do nothing more than send back a smartass comment in response to her request.

Dzrose93:
“As for the Greek pin collectors who say they're collecting badges in order to "save" them from being melted down... Why don't they go a step further and REALLY "save" them by returning them to their rightful owners - National Headquarters?”

wptw: You know, that is such an easy offhand “cocktail party” thing to say. Sure, everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too:

You want the badges saved from being melted down…

This has nothing to do with wanting my cake and eating it too. There's nothing I detest more than hypocrisy. There are badge collectors who hide behind the "It was going to be melted down unless I bought it" excuse. If that person is so concerned about the welfare of that badge, then why not contact the National HQ and let them know of the situation? My organization would offer to pay the cost of the badge or $50, whichever was less, in order to get that badge back in our possession. And, if it were to cost more than $50, there is a whole network of sisters who will do their best to raise the money to save it. Unfortunately, badge collectors prevent us from saving many of those badges because we just can't go as high as they do in the bidding. Do we resent them for that? You're darn right we do!

wptw: But you can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…
And your HQ can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…

Wrong. We can't afford to buy them out of the COLLECTORS' hands who are bidding against us. If the collectors would keep their money out of the bidding, then we would stand a MUCH better chance of rescuing badges.

wptw: And you won’t do the legwork to find the other 50% of “loose” badges that AREN’T on ebay…

Won't do the legwork to find the badges not on E-Bay? That is such an untrue statement that it's almost laughable. We have sisters who visit antique and jewelry shops, attend estate sales, and check magazines and newspapers regularly to see if badges can be located. Then, if they can't afford to buy the badges themselves, they contact our Badge Rescue Fund members to see if someone is willing to pool their funds in order to get the badges back. So, please don't assume that we aren't actively looking for our badges just because you find them before we do occasionally.

wptw: So you expect collectors to do ALL of this for you with their own time and money? This sounds like Communism!

wptw: Let me see if I’ve got the message straight:
>>>Thank you, Mr. Collector, for spending piles of your own money and scores of Saturdays to rescue pins since before I was even born. But now there’s ebay, and we’re on top of it now. Besides which you weren’t really supposed to have those pins anyway you know, and even though you’ve spent a big chunk of your life preserving and studying GLO history, really you don’t understand what it means to be a respectful greek. So could you please just donate your entire collections that you’ve worked years to build back to the HQs, where they will likely collect dust in a storage room? Thanks. We can’t afford to reimburse you or anything, but just think what great PR it will be!<<<

I'm sorry - exactly where in my post did I say that I "expect" people to find and buy back badges since GLO members and/or their National Headquarters can't afford to do so 24/7? Where in my post did I ask people to donate their entire collections back to HQ? You obviously missed (or chose to overlook) my point which is: THE BADGES SHOULDN'T BE COLLECTED BY NON-MEMBERS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If you are Greek and believe in the mottos that we live by and the creeds that our founders wrote, then why are you actively going against the wishes of your fellow Greeks by buying up items that they DO NOT want a non-member to possess?

Why, after people make you aware of the fact that it is written in a particular GLO's rules and regulations that badges are not to be owned or worn by non-members, do you CONTINUE to purchase these items?

The answer is that you just don't care about the wishes of other GLOs. You can preach until you're blue in the face about how much you've studied Greek history and you can tell us how you're preserving that history by buying these badges. But it doesn't change the simple fact that, by buying those badges for your own personal gratification, you are thumbing your nose at your Greek brothers and sisters.

By purchasing those badges you're basically saying, "Yeah, I know that your national policy specifically states that non-members shouldn't have your badges, but I'm different. I've read a couple of old pledge books and learned a few things about your founders. I know why you have the colors you do, and why your flower is what it is. Heck, I even have a few theories about what your sorority pin might represent. And, although I've never been inside your initiation ritual, that doesn't really matter because I'm entitled to your badge simply because I lucked up and found one for sale, had the cash available, and thought it would be nice to have it in my collection. Too bad that the little XYZ member who was bidding on E-Bay against me didn't have the funds to outbid me. Oh well, that's not my fault, is it?"

With all that said, to be quite honest, I don't give a rat's arse what you think about my comments. You can twist my words however you like. It doesn't change the fact that many badge collectors A) fully realize that there are GLO's with written policies stating that their badges are to be possessed by initiated members ONLY and B) they simply don't give a damn about the wishes of those GLOs.

My point is a perfectly legitimate one, and I think deep down you know it.