Posting Badges from Ebay
 

Is posting badges to individual boards here a bad idea? Yesterday I posted on a couple groups' boards that a badge was up on ebay, so someone could hopefully go rescue it. I got a few thank yous, and one email that said I was publicizing badges being on ebay and that I was perpetuating the proliferation of badges to collectors through free advertising!

Do folks really think that?

I don't think that you are perpetuating the proliferation of badges to collectors through free advertising!

In all likelihood, none of us here on GC are independently wealthy and can afford to out-bid the die hard collectors on E Bay. However, by doing us this courtesy of letting us know about the badges on E Bay, we can then turn to our Nationals & notify them, , and in some cases, Nationals will address it, or try to bid for the badge themselves.

So, thanks shadokat!

Personally, I was very happy to see your post, shadokat. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, and I'm very grateful for the information! :)

You do good!:)

There are a few LXA who get our Badges off ebay to keep in our hands!

I know I have bougth 6!

Another one is vintagefraternitypins.com. Most of theirs are older but I bought 2 as gave me a break for buying both!

I know ASLANA is looking for a ASA Pin and I am still looking for her also!

I always check to se if a Brother is bidding and will not go up against them so not to raise the price!

Many people have gotten them from estate sales and have no clue what they mean to us, it is just money to them!

If you can get them!:)

I'm tired of seeing these same people win the auctions. I tried to get a very very old badge of ours the other day. I'm sure the people who were bidding on it had no idea that it belonged to a brother who graduated from Amherst in 1885. They only knew his last name. I know that because I have an old membership directory. All they see is another cool looking pin to add to their collection. We see it has a symbol of our fraternity and something that belonged to a dear brother of ours, and I want to bring it back to DU. But no, I don't have almost $400 to spend on it, makes me sick. Pins that old and that special are pretty rare, and this one is going into some bin with a bunch of other pins probably.

I think it's good that you post...I saw that same pin on Ebay that you posted to the KKG board, you posted just before I was going to.

It was in a recent issue of The Key (the Kappa magazine) that HQ has people whose job it is to surf the net and get our badges back at whatever it costs. Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would want to bid so high on a badge from an organization to which they did not belong unless they are mean and disrespectful and spiteful. When you post, it gives us a chance to get one of our badges back and preserve some Fraternity history.

Well, since Shadokat made this into a thread (and since she really didn't paraphrase my first email very accurately), I'll just paste my reply to her here. I'm the dissenting opinion she referred to.

***

Hi Shadokat,

Thanks for your reply.

I understand the intention of your posts very clearly. I think what you’re doing is very noble. But I also think your posts are a knee-jerk reaction that has long term repercussions. It’s pretty simple supply and demand. The more demand you stir up, the more dealers will hike the prices. Higher prices mean several things – harder for the “average member” or indeed the national HQ to buy one, more incentive for people to steal badges, more incentive for collectors to sell duplicates from their collections on ebay rather than returning them to the national HQ, etc.

I have watched and recorded closing prices and winning bidders on every GLO pin auctioned on ebay since it started in 1997. Both the number of badges on ebay and the average sell prices are increasing at the alarming rate of about 25% per year! You think that’s happening in a vacuum? No, it’s a rapid growth in demand spurred on partly by this “sky is falling” panic response that you often see on greekchat and elsewhere. Do a greekchat search on “ebay” – there are like 25 threads in just the last week! More than half of them are about badges on ebay.

So with that in mind, who exactly are you “making aware”? Everyone on the planet knows that their GLO badges are frequently on ebay. There have been 415 fraternity and sorority pins sold on ebay in the last 30 days alone! If I’m a DPhiE with money to spend and I want to buy a badge, don’t you think I’m already checking ebay? Isn’t that the first place I’d look? If I’m a representative from a national HQ and it’s my job to rescue badges from the open market, don’t you think I’m already checking ebay? These people are already bidding on these pins, and they have been bidding on them all along. Now they’re just paying more because they’re bidding against their own members, all the while putting more money in the dealers’ hands.

So, I’m not really irked or offended. I just think that while your intentions are commendable, your actions are shortsighted. And I think I have a broader perspective on it because not only am I an NIC fraternity member but I am also a long time collector of GLO badges.

Best Regards,
wptw

I am asking the general GC public what they think of this wptw, as you have already made your opinions known to me. I made it into a thread because if people thought that my posting ebay pins in their organization's forum was a "knee-jerk" reaction to try to save pins from collectors' hands, I wanted to know. As it appears thus far, most seem to appreciate it.

My guess is that your problem is that you are a pin collector, so maybe the prices you're willing to pay for pins is quite a bit less than a National Headquarters is willing to pay to save a badge, so you're a bit miffed. I could be wrong, but I don't really understand why someone out of the blue sends me an email as you did, and tells me that while noble, my actions are not very helpful.

First, let me respond to some statements.

KappaStargirl:
“Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would want to bid so high on a badge from an organization to which they did not belong unless they are mean and disrespectful and spiteful.”

Do you honestly believe that collectors spend hundreds of $$ of their hard-earned cash on an antique badge simply out of spite? That's absurd. Being mean and disrespectful and spiteful is free. So if you’re inclined to be that way (personally I’m not), why pay $1200?


CutiePie2000:
“In all likelihood, none of us here on GC are independently wealthy and can afford to out-bid the die hard collectors on E Bay.”

You think collectors are independently wealthy? From your lips to god’s ears, my dear! Would that it were true, but alas, ‘tis just another of many generalizations about collectors.


BrianMUDU:
“I'm sure the people who were bidding on it had no idea that it belonged to a brother who graduated from Amherst in 1885.:

Don’t be so sure. Who do you think are buying the antique directories off of ebay? The auction you referred to was indeed won by a collector. But you neglect to mention that the last 10 or so old DU badges on ebay in the last year went to a DU member (who happened to be the 2nd highest bidder in this auction). By my math, that tells me 91% of the time you’re bidding against your own brother, not a collector.

But this is my point exactly! DU already has someone fighting hard for their badges. Bravo for him, seriously. Most other groups do too. So what purpose does “HEADS UP DU’s – YOUR BADGE IS ON EBAY” serve? Just more acrimony and higher prices.

By the way, do you really believe after spending $355, this guy is going to throw that DU badge into “some bin with a bunch of other pins”?

Shadokat:
“My guess is that your problem is that you are a pin collector, so maybe the prices you're willing to pay for pins is quite a bit less than a National Headquarters is willing to pay to save a badge, so you're a bit miffed”

Are you crazy? As a collector, I LOVE high prices on ebay. If I need to sell off a duplicate, ebay is the best place. I rarely buy from ebay – there always have been and always will be less expensive places to find nice pins. That’s the whole point – you’re not taking these pins out of collectors hands! You’re making us pay more for them, sure. But we’ll keep paying the high prices just like you will, because we want them just as much as you want them. Think about it – as prices have gone up, would you say collectors win auctions (a) more often, (b) less often or (c) with about the same frequency? I say (c) and possibly even (a). In the end, nothing will change except the dealers will have more money. That’s all I’m saying.

“I could be wrong, but I don't really understand why someone out of the blue sends me an email as you did, and tells me that while noble, my actions are not very helpful.”

Clearly you don’t understand. The answer is: Because I’m not just a collector, that’s why. I’m also a GLO member. And as a GLO member, I don’t want to see dealers profiting excessively from the sale of my badge any more than any of you do.



No need to poll the audience. I already know mine is the dissenting opinion. I didn’t post here to win friends. And I don’t need to have people agree with me to know I’m right. I’m not here to troll or start trouble either. I have a different opinion than all of you, I think I have some solid arguments to back up my opinion, and I’m stating those arguments all the while treating all of you with respect (which is more than I can say for some of you who insist on stereotyping and insulting collectors).

wptw

shadokat-

Someone brought this up a little while ago - that posting it drove the price up. The consensus was to PM the moderator of that GLO's forum so they would be notified yet it would not be open for all to see. However, there are many forums on here with no moderator, so if you are bothered by it, then **AHEM** volunteer to moderate your GLO's forum.

As far as collectors go, they wouldn't have the chance to bid on these badges or other items if we stressed it more to our members to provide instructions for dispensation of these badges after death and did a better job explaining its significance. Let's face it, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

It's Alpha Pi, not Alpha Phi
 

Today, in my ebay email there was a pin advertised for Alpha Phi Fraternity. Naturally I checked it out. Turns out it is a pin for Alpha Pi, not Alpha Phi. The person selling it doesn't even know the greek alphabet. How frustrating! So FYI, if you are an Alpha Pi, there is an arrow pin on ebay right now.

I don't hate collectors, as wptw would like you all to believe. Maybe people do, but that's their choice to make. All I tried to do by posting in the organization's forum was to tell folks that a pin from their organization was up for auction. I would rather see pins on ebay go to members of an organization or their HQs than see them go to a pin collector. Of course, I realize that pin collectors (one of the being a sister of mine) also save the pins sometimes from people who melt down the valuable gold and keep the gems for their own use.

My motive in my posting is pretty clear...I'd rather see a member or HQ get the pin. It hasn't nothing to do with posting for popularity or anything else.

With that said, I think I'll go back under the rock I came from, because I'd rather not become the focus of some argument.

shadokat, feel free to post in the Alpha Phi forum at any time. We would all appreciate your kindness! :D

Ditto! :)

wptw,

I wouldn't expect you to understand because you are one of the kinds of people who I am frustrated with -- People who feel the need to buy something that shouldn't belong to them. I know that the second highest bidder was a DU. I usually wouldn't bid against a brother, but since this person had outbid me once before in another auction I didn't feel bad about trying to win the auction myself. I'm not just trying to "save" these badges. I also want them because I have great respect for them and would like to be the one in possession of it as well as the person who kept it in the Fraternity. So while it may seem harsh, I don't care to hear your opinion on things anymore. I would never bid on a badge from another fraternity. It isn't my fraternity, it doesn't belong to me.