12-year-old tased by police officer

[Kevin]

From what I have found, she at least one prior conviction for trafficking which is still open. She has other cases which are closed--about 5 or 6 criminal charges. She ain't good people.

I kind of doubt a county sheriff would have hunted this lady down in a Victoria Secret without there being some other reason to arrest her on just a traffic ticket though.

That said, I can find no evidence of trafficking charges and I would think that at this stage, there'd be something online.

[Kevin]

None of those cases are very current.

[DrPhil]

Thank you for your opinion, tcsparky. I know all about unruly and violent children ranging in age from 4 to 17. I went to school with kids like that in the 1980s-1990s and see kids like that today. I also have experience with youth offenders and experience with law enforcement and tasers.

The issue is whether a child's unruly and violent behaviors warrant certain types of responses. When it comes to tasering ADULTS (including those with mental and physical conditions) people can definitely understand it but there remains ongoing debate, extensive research, and challenging of law enforcement procedures. There is research and community involvement regarding tasering adults (and children) with autism and other conditions based on the premise that someone's strength and behavior alone are not the ultimate determinant.

Why is it then unquestioned (by some people) to taser CHILDREN even if the children are being unruly or violent? I can understand there are instances where an officer tasers a child as a last resort but even then, where are the boundaries? Does age not matter as Kevin believes? I also wonder whether the police officer in this instance warned this 12 year old that she will be tasered if she (and the third person) doesn't chill out.

[IrishLake]

She is a 12 year old, technically still a child. However, she is certainly old enough to know right from wrong. By the age of 12, not 3, not 6, not even 8, but a 12 year old should know better. Trust me, cops do not like having to restrain or taze a child! It is the officers responsibility to do his job to the best of his ability, and sadly this time that meant arresting a mother in front of her child. That is traumatic. That is heartbreaking. I do not doubt that the officer tazed her as a last resort.

I hate how race has been made an issue. Does the race of the officer matter?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

She is a 12 year old, technically still a child. However, she is certainly old enough to know right from wrong. By the age of 12, not 3, not 6, not even 8, but a 12 year old should know better.

Yes, it is widely held the age at which children learn right from wrong. It is before the age of 12. I will keep this in mind the next time people talk about kids just being kids and kids and their silly behaviors. LOL.

Also, please remind me what this child was doing wrong beyond perhaps thinking that she was protecting her parent? Adults sometimes react that way when they feel a loved one is being unfairly targeted. Certainly a child would.

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Does the race of the officer matter?

I do not know the race of the officer. Was that mentioned in the articles? I missed it.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

I do not doubt that the officer tazed her as a last resort.

I'd like to think that, but my experience is that it may have been a last resort or it may have been an over-reaction on the part of the police officer. It happens.

In my opinion, a taser should only be used on a 12-year-old as a true last resort and after a clear warning. Whether that happened here I can't tell from any of the news articles I've seen.

[justgo_withit]

HP says (the officer says) the girl and an "unidentified female" charged at him. A 30 second google search says that tasers are not super accurate. If the officer's report is true, then he may have not been aiming for the child, he was just acting in self defense. Or he's a racist pig and he enjoys torturing children in his spare time. Since none of us were there, we have no way of knowing what went down between the sensationalist, i-love-getting-upset-at-things extremes of ZOMG HE TASERED A CHILD and the police-talk report. Like what constitutes "physically interfering"? What happened between the officer trying to arrest the woman and taser time? I have no idea and both sides are going to manipulate the truth in their favor, intentionally or unintentionally.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by justgo_withit

...the sensationalist, i-love-getting-upset-at-things extremes of ZOMG HE TASERED A CHILD....

He tasered a 12 year old child. There is nothing sensationalist or I-love-getting-upset-at-things about that FACT. There is perhaps something extreme about tasering a child and that is what this thread discussion is about.

[IrishLake]

Fucking with a cop is far from being a "silly" behavior where kids are being kids.
Do you have any suggestions what the officer should have done, DrPhil?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Fucking with a cop is far from being a "silly" behavior where kids are being kids.

That depends on what "fucking with a cop" means.

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Do you have any suggestions what the officer should have done, DrPhil?

Yes. What law enforcement officers did before tasers existed and what law enforcement officers do when they opt not to use tasers.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And since some of you do not think this is a derailment or a mere clarifying the details, I again state that this thread is about a 12 year old child being tasered.

Kevin does not care about age. I do. I would like to read what other GCers think instead of reading about Charlene E. Bratton's charges and whether she is being completely honest about the details of what happened at Victoria Secrets. What is fact is that a 12 year old child was tasered by a police officer. No debate there.

Even if it is a "derailment," this is nothing new for Greekchat. As we usually say to new users who complain that people aren't answering their questions.. People can respond to whatever they'd like, however they'd like.

Just saying.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yes. What law enforcement officers did before tasers existed and what law enforcement officers do when they opt not to use tasers.

But there's clearly a reason why they have them - because whatever they were doing before tasers probably wasn't enough.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But there's clearly a reason why they have them - because whatever they were doing before tasers probably wasn't enough.

There is a reason we have a lot of things. That does not mean those things are always the best choice.

Originally Posted by IrishLake

That would mean using a baton on an extremity.

No. But you already knew that a baton was not the only option before tasers existed.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Why hasn't a PD rep released a statement saying "X amount of personnel were present at the station and can attest that did not happen?"

The SLPD is unlikely to release any statement describing what happened or making any judgments about it until after an investigation is done.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But there's clearly a reason why they have them - because whatever they were doing before tasers probably wasn't enough.

That doesn't really follow. Sometimes what they were doing before wasn't enough, but sometimes it was. And sometimes it was too much -- tasers provide a less dangerous alternative to using a gun or baton to subdue someone.

The question is whether it is ever appropriate to use a taser on a 12-year-old, and if it is, when is it. I tend to agree with cg that it's only appropriate if necessary to prevent the child from harming him- or herself or others, and then only when less drastic means won't work and when there has been a clear warning.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

I work in a psychiatric facility and have been physically assaulted by children ages 4-17 and up to 6 feet tall (I'm 5'3"). I still am against using a taser on a child for multiple reasons ETA: unless that child is armed with a weapon and has clear intent to do severe harm to his/herself or another person.

The questions I have after seeing the news reports:

1. Was this a one-man arrest? I was under the impression that you would have back up or at least a partner present when trying to arrest a woman in a potentially crowded store so there should be another officer's perspective on what happened unless that's not protocol for SLPD (which is possible).

2. The girl had 2 taser marks--one on her chest and one on her stomach. What exactly was she doing that she needed to be tased twice?

3. Dejamon (not her mother) said she was tased at the store and at the police station; however, someone else should have seen that if it happened.

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I do not believe that a child should be tasered, unless as christiangirl mentioned, that child was armed. As DrPhil mentioned, situations such as this preceded the existence of tasers, so there are alternate ways of handling them.

A child is going to be very distressed witnessing a parent being arrested. Should she have stood back and not interfered? Absolutely, but the fact remains that she is a child whose brain is not fully developed yet who was tasered by an adult (whose brain should be pretty much done, I would hope.)

That being said, all of the articles that I found via google were told from the perspective of the victim. I would like to hear the police department's story and, even more so, from any witnesses on the scene.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

That doesn't really follow. Sometimes what they were doing before wasn't enough, but sometimes it was. And sometimes it was too much -- tasers provide a less dangerous alternative to using a gun or baton to subdue someone.

The question is whether it is ever appropriate to use a taser on a 12-year-old, and if it is, when is it. I tend to agree with cg that it's only appropriate if necessary to prevent the child from harming him- or herself or others, and then only when less drastic means won't work and when there has been a clear warning.

I agree with these posts.

I think some of the articles present an unofficial account of what the officer claims happened. The official PD statement, if it is ever released, will be released after the investigation.

For those who believe a child of any age should be tasered, I again ask whether there are any boundaries when dealing with police policies, procedures, and discretion? If there are boundaries, what are the boundaries? If there are none, what are the potential issues with that?

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That depends on what "fucking with a cop" means.



Yes. What law enforcement officers did before tasers existed and what law enforcement officers do when they opt not to use tasers.

That would mean using a baton on an extremity. Many Leos still opt for that. Is that better than a taser? And I'd say that interfering with a cop while he's arresting your mom qualifies as "fucking with a cop." Yes, it's sad and it may have been instinctual for her to protect her mom, but the situation could have gotten much worse had he not done it.

I'm surprised a witness didn't video the whole thing. I'm sure the store has security footage, but I doubt that gets shown publicly.