Teaching formal manners as part of pledging/new membership?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Delta does not formally/officially do it, but if a collegiate or alumnae Delta chapter was hosting or attending a formal event, it would not be frowned upon to have some reminders if the chapter dynamic/culture is conducive to that.

For instance, D.I.D. (Delta Internal Development) are activities that reinforce Delta programs and traditions. We do D.I.D. for a number of reasons, including reminding Sorors of some things that they have forgotten. Therefore, a chapter could include some forms of etiquette if they are doing an Economic Development Gala, for example.

I see.

In the NALFO/MGC world, I've seen many chapters host "Proper dress for an interview" or "How to eat at a formal event" events, but they were typically one-offs, not (from an outsider's perspective) part of their official programming.

ETA: This reminds me of Morehouse (I think?) banning specific outfits on campus because "that's not acceptable in the real world." This is what I thought of when referring to HBCUs having the requirements.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

The thing is, while technically correct, these are rather antiquated and probably not the most critical stuff to teach your members. The point of etiquette is to not be rude. It's far more important that people know not to chew with their mouth full or to return a napkin to the table than it is to course them in a bunch of arbitrary rules.

I think a good rule of thumb is to consider whether there is a good justification for the rule (e.g. you don't return your napkin to the table because it is dirty) in prioritizing the stuff members need to know.

Amen.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

The point of etiquette is to not be rude.

Agreed, with a slight modification. The point of etiquette, and etiquette rules, is to know what to expect. In other words, the point is to lay a groundwork of basic assumptions about what is rude and what is not (and yes, DrPhil is quite right that quite a discussion can be had about whose assumptions those are) so that people know how to avoid giving offense. Without a doubt, some things are likely to be seen as much more rude than others (talking with one's mouth full vs. eating with the wrong fork), and the ultimate goal is indeed to not be rude.

But even the rules that can seem arbitrary can matter -- where you put the napkin when you get up from the table can be a signal to servers as to whether you're coming back. (In your chair means you're coming back; loosely folded to the left of your plate means you are not.)

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

The thing is, while technically correct, these are rather antiquated and probably not the most critical stuff to teach your members. The point of etiquette is to not be rude. It's far more important that people know not to chew with their mouth full or to return a napkin to the table than it is to course them in a bunch of arbitrary rules.

I think a good rule of thumb is to consider whether there is a good justification for the rule (e.g. you don't return your napkin to the table because it is dirty) in prioritizing the stuff members need to know.

I won't argue with you (and what we learned wasn't restricted to rules like this - I just mentioned these because they were brought up). However, I do also think that certain rules should be followed to some extent. And depending on the setting, yes, they can be important. I've seen people not get jobs because of completely incorrect etiquette.

You don't have to be perfect all the time.. But holding your fork like a neanderthal, scarfing down food, and having not one thought about how you appear to others can lead to unpleasant meals for those around you. Although the rules don't have to be followed to a tee (I know I certainly don't do that), it does cause you to be more aware of how you should act while eating.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

But even the rules that can seem arbitrary can matter -- where you put the napkin when you get up from the table can be a signal to servers as to whether you're coming back. (In your chair means you're coming back; loosely folded to the left of your plate means you are not.)

Exactly! I know I'd be mad if my plate was cleared when I wasn't yet finished!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I won't argue with you....

Bad etiquette?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Bad etiquette?

Haha and very rude!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Exactly! I know I'd be mad if my plate was cleared when I wasn't yet finished!

One issue with teaching ettiquette at this banquet was that the wait staff was not nearly knowledgeable to appreciate it. For example, when we sat down, the caesar salad and roll were at each place as well as appropriate silverware and a desert (one of two different types) was between the eating area and the centerpiece. When they delivered the dinner they left the plastic cover on until the entire table was served and the picked them up, however the server didn't realize that one person had not been served (we had little place cards with the selected meal indicated by a colored dot. They *never* cleared the dinner plates from our table, when our table was done eating our dinners, we just sort of waited (as the plates had been cleared at *some* other tables, but eventually, we just gave up and traded our dinner dishes for the desert dishes.

What I think was true is that the woman running the catering/wait staff knew what to do, but everyone else was fairly clueless.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

But even the rules that can seem arbitrary can matter -- where you put the napkin when you get up from the table can be a signal to servers as to whether you're coming back. (In your chair means you're coming back; loosely folded to the left of your plate means you are not.)

This is actually debated among etiquette experts, so the best way to convey something to your server is to speak to them (or more precisely, they should ask you).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

This is actually debated among etiquette experts, so the best way to convey something to your server is to speak to them (or more precisely, they should ask you).

Fair enough, but I will say it's how I was taught (by my parents/family -- never took a class). That said, I was taught that when placed on the table, the napkin should be loosely folded in such a way that no food can be seen on it.

[aephi alum]

Formal dinner-table etiquette was not part of my new member program. I learned proper etiquette from my parents, at the dinner table at home, starting as soon as I could hold a fork. IMO this is how it should be done.

Slight digression... I eat using the Continental style. My mother tried to teach me the American style, but she herself eats Continental style, so it was a matter of "do as I say, not as I do". Both methods are acceptable, so eventually she gave up.

[Sciencewoman]

Our university holds an Etiquette Dinner each semester. It's a chance for students to brush up/learn these things before they hit the job market.