Teacher Accused of Statutory Rape and Other Offenses

[lovespink88]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It is hard for me to talk about much, but I have a dear friend who was falsely accused and convicted of this type of crime. She is spending four years in prison and it has ruined her life. She was tried by the media and on bulletin boards before she went to trial.

I bring up that point only because it's important to hold true to "innocent until proven guilty." We tend not to do that, especially in these kinds of cases.

Thank you for this. My parents' friends have a daughter who went through something extremely similar.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by lovespink88

Thank you for this. My parents' friends have a daughter who went through something extremely similar.

Yes...yes...there is also a Lifetime movie about that.

It is not uncommon for the public to form an opinion which I don't see many people having a problem with for cases like Sandusky at Penn State.

[christiangirl]

Ren, were you (and he) a senior that year or was there no chance he was of age? I'm just curious. The answer won't reverse the vomit creeping up my throat because that's so far past creepy.

An old high school friend was arrested a couple years ago for having a relationsip with a student. He was 23 and she was 17, I believe. Knowing him to be a "good guy," knowing there are relationships with wider age ranges, knowing it wasn't about sex and that they did actually have a relationship....I still think it was wrong. I was saddened by how it destroyed his reputation and made him lose his job but I really can't say anything. She was off-limits whether or not she was 17-almost-18. He was her teacher and consequently, their relationship could NEVER be equal until he wasn't anymore. It was an abuse of power whether he intended it to be or not. He should have known better.

Which brings me back to the point we were discussing ^^^up there somewhere. If these children sought out alcohol or whatever from their teacher, that was wrong because they knew they shouldn't have it. I acknowledge that. But everything before, during, and after that falls on the teacher's shoulders. Even if some of them were "of age" there was a power dynamic involved and it was her responsibility to avoid this. The legal system can work out the rest.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Ren, were you (and he) a senior that year or was there no chance he was of age? I'm just curious. The answer won't reverse the vomit creeping up my throat because that's so far past creepy.

An old high school friend was arrested a couple years ago for having a relationsip with a student. He was 23 and she was 17, I believe. Knowing him to be a "good guy," knowing there are relationships with wider age ranges, knowing it wasn't about sex and that they did actually have a relationship....I still think it was wrong. I was saddened by how it destroyed his reputation and made him lose his job but I really can't say anything. She was off-limits whether or not she was 17-almost-18. He was her teacher and consequently, their relationship could NEVER be equal until he wasn't anymore. It was an abuse of power whether he intended it to be or not. He should have known better.

Which brings me back to the point we were discussing ^^^up there somewhere. If these children sought out alcohol or whatever from their teacher, that was wrong because they knew they shouldn't have it. I acknowledge that. But everything before, during, and after that falls on the teacher's shoulders. Even if some of them were "of age" there was a power dynamic involved and it was her responsibility to avoid this. The legal system can work out the rest.

Agreed on all points.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Ren, were you (and he) a senior that year or was there no chance he was of age? I'm just curious. The answer won't reverse the vomit creeping up my throat because that's so far past creepy.

We were seniors when the relationship was discovered, but it was brought out that they had apparently been together for quite a while.

Originally Posted by christiangirl

She was off-limits whether or not she was 17-almost-18. He was her teacher and consequently, their relationship could NEVER be equal until he wasn't anymore. It was an abuse of power whether he intended it to be or not. He should have known better.

Exactly. My dad was my mom's teacher, which freaks out a lot of people - but they didn't date until she was in college. I don't have a problem with that - it's kind of like when someone dates someone who they used to supervise at work. If you no longer work together, it's no big deal. If you're still their boss, then that's completely inappropriate.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

I mean, think what you may of the cognitive abilities of minors, but I'm still pretty sure most middle school kids know that alcohol is a no-no.

You're giving kids way too much credit if you think "most middle school kids know that alcohol is a no-no."

You haven't spent much time with middle schoolers, have you?

[crosscaravan]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

You're giving kids way too much credit if you think "most middle school kids know that alcohol is a no-no."

You haven't spent much time with middle schoolers, have you?

My point was that anyone who asks someone older than them for alcohol knows it's something they're not allowed to have or buy - a "no-no." If they didn't know it was illegal, they would have just tried to buy it on their own instead of asking.

I don't spend much time with middle schoolers now, but when I was in middle school my friends and I knew enough to stay away from alcohol. The students who wanted alcohol got it, but they also knew that it was illegal for them to do so, so they had to be sneaky about it. I had very little sympathy for the people in my 8th grade class who complained of being hungover the day after bragging about how their "cool college friends" would be getting alcohol for them at an "awesome party."

The attitudes towards and the knowledge about alcohol at that age may also have something to do with where I grew up, though, so there you have it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

My point was that anyone who asks someone older than them for alcohol knows it's something they're not allowed to have or buy - a "no-no." If they didn't know it was illegal, they would have just tried to buy it on their own instead of asking.

What is the significance of this in light of what this teacher is being accused of?

Many teenagers don't like the fact that they have restrictions. Some teenagers would ask for all sorts of things if they think adults will give it to them. Some teenagers would ask for shots of tequila if they thought an adult would give it to them; some teenagers would ask to drive the car without a drivers license and with no one with a drivers license in the car if they thought an adult would give that to them; some teenagers would ask for oral sex if they thought an adult would give it to them. The fact of the matter remains that there is a legal drinking age; legal age at which teens can get drivers licenses and drive cars all by themselves; and an age of informed consent.

Period.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

My point was that anyone who asks someone older than them for alcohol knows it's something they're not allowed to have or buy - a "no-no." If they didn't know it was illegal, they would have just tried to buy it on their own instead of asking.

I don't spend much time with middle schoolers now, but when I was in middle school my friends and I knew enough to stay away from alcohol. The students who wanted alcohol got it, but they also knew that it was illegal for them to do so, so they had to be sneaky about it. I had very little sympathy for the people in my 8th grade class who complained of being hungover the day after bragging about how their "cool college friends" would be getting alcohol for them at an "awesome party."

The attitudes towards and the knowledge about alcohol at that age may also have something to do with where I grew up, though, so there you have it.

Ok so your friends are all perfect and they would never do that.

I've worked in middle school, and the average kid is not that. Not saying that every middle school kid I've known is a raging party animal, but even the best kids will try drinking if one of their friends is doing it.

What I was really getting at with quoting your statement is that, in the context of what we're discussing here, if I get arrested for buying my students alcohol, I can't respond with "well, they knew it was illegal to ask me."

Whether they know better or not, I'm still the adult. I have to protect them (by not providing it for them) because the law says "these are kids and they aren't capable of making decisions regarding purchasing/consuming an intoxicating substance."

[Optimus Prime]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Ok so your friends are all perfect and they would never do that.

I've worked in middle school, and the average kid is not that. Not saying that every middle school kid I've known is a raging party animal, but even the best kids will try drinking if one of their friends is doing it.

What I was really getting at with quoting your statement is that, in the context of what we're discussing here, if I get arrested for buying my students alcohol, I can't respond with "well, they knew it was illegal to ask me."

Whether they know better or not, I'm still the adult. I have to protect them (by not providing it for them) because the law says "these are kids and they aren't capable of making decisions regarding purchasing/consuming an intoxicating substance."

Agreed on everything. I'd also like to add another small point. Children may know certain things are wrong, or off limits. If children ask an adult for something that they know they shouldn't have, and that adult gives it to them, in a lot of children's minds they think it's then okay to have whatever was off limits. An adult giving a child something can seem like they're getting permission to have it/do it/say it, so in hindsight they really don't know it's a no-no.

[DrPhil]

The news sources cannot decide whether the boys range in ages 11-14 or 14-17. They are still minors based on how minor is defined in Tennessee (legal drinking age is 21; age of informed consent is 18).

I still want some clarity on the age range.

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-teache...,4222104.story

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...40-yrs-in-jail

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...d-sex-students

[AXOmom]

Another point on a middle schooler asking for alcohol and for the record I also agree that whether they did or didn't has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the sex abuse charge and in NO WAY makes them even .00001% at fault for it.

I've taught middle school and high school age students for most of my career. Not once has a student come to me or any teacher I know and asked for alcohol. Do they want it? Yes, they do. Do they find it? Yes, they do, but they don't randomly ask teachers, and I'm assuming that's because they know that the results of that query would not be good.

That would lead me to believe that IF they did ask this teacher, she had already crossed enough lines that they believed she was the type of person that might do it. I don't know if she's guilty, but that would seem to be typical behavior for a sexual predator. Generally, they work like a fisherman - they know what the fish wants, they put it on a hook, wait for it to bite and slowly reel it in before the fish know what's happened.

Personally, I think she knew exactly what the typical 14-17 year old boy would want, she led them to believe she was the "cool, laid-back" teacher who might be willing to provide it, and then she had them where she wanted them like any other sexual predator. In other words - she groomed them. If that turns out to be what happened it doesn't matter whether or not they asked for alcohol, it doesn't matter if they were 11 or 17, and it shouldn't matter that they're boys and she's a woman - she should be locked up like any other skeezy, perverted, middle-aged sex abuser.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

I've taught middle school and high school age students for most of my career. Not once has a student come to me or any teacher I know and asked for alcohol. Do they want it? Yes, they do. Do they find it? Yes, they do, but they don't randomly ask teachers, and I'm assuming that's because they know that the results of that query would not be good.

That would lead me to believe that IF they did ask this teacher, she had already crossed enough lines that they believed she was the type of person that might do it. I don't know if she's guilty, but that would seem to be typical behavior for a sexual predator. Generally, they work like a fisherman - they know what the fish wants, they put it on a hook, wait for it to bite and slowly reel it in before the fish know what's happened.

Personally, I think she knew exactly what the typical 14-17 year old boy would want, she led them to believe she was the "cool, laid-back" teacher who might be willing to provide it, and then she had them where she wanted them like any other sexual predator.

EXACTLY. I think it's an odd request. I bet if someone would ask the other middle-school teachers in the school "did these students ever ask you to buy them alcohol?" the answer would be "NO!" Why THAT teacher? To me, it seems the answer is clear- she is a predator and was blurring lines long before this happened.

[ElieM]

Does "statutory rape by an authority figure" carry a heavier penalty than other "statutory rape"?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by ElieM

Does "statutory rape by an authority figure" carry a heavier penalty than other "statutory rape"?

Who would you classify as being an "authority figure"?

While I don't know the law, I would hope that there weren't different penalties. IMO, statutory rape is statutory rape. Everyone who commits a crime such as the one described here should be thrown in jail for a VERY LONG TIME.