Teacher Accused of Statutory Rape and Other Offenses

[crosscaravan]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, the minors are not partially responsible. Minors (people who are legally considered minors) cannot legally request alcohol from an adult in jurisdictions where people under a certain age cannot legally consume alcohol.

I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here, and say that while I do agree with you, I also think that may be the point she's trying to make, though. They requested it even though it's not legal for them to have it. From a legal standpoint, the kids aren't responsible - she should have known better than to actually listen to the kids, for goodness' sake. She's the adult in that situation. But assuming all these charges are true, she may not have considered giving them the alcohol if they hadn't asked.

Like you said, legally they can't be held even partially responsible for requesting it, because she should have known better than to say "lol, that's fine, what kind do you want?" Morally, it's even worse - but from a non-legal standpoint, the fact that the kids asked for something that they knew was illegal could show that they knew that what they were doing was wrong, but they chose to do it anyway.

I mean, think what you may of the cognitive abilities of minors, but I'm still pretty sure most middle school kids know that alcohol is a no-no.

[victoriana]

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here, and say that while I do agree with you, I also think that may be the point she's trying to make, though. They requested it even though it's not legal for them to have it. From a legal standpoint, the kids aren't responsible - she should have known better than to actually listen to the kids, for goodness' sake. She's the adult in that situation. But assuming all these charges are true, she may not have considered giving them the alcohol if they hadn't asked.

Like you said, legally they can't be held even partially responsible for requesting it, because she should have known better than to say "lol, that's fine, what kind do you want?" Morally, it's even worse - but from a non-legal standpoint, the fact that the kids asked for something that they knew was illegal could show that they knew that what they were doing was wrong, but they chose to do it anyway.

I mean, think what you may of the cognitive abilities of minors, but I'm still pretty sure most middle school kids know that alcohol is a no-no.

I 100% agree with you. If these minors did indeed ask the teacher for alcohol and she provided it, I would say that legally, the kids can't be held responsible but morally, they should be. They know that it's wrong for them to have alcohol. The teacher should have known better than to give it to them, but the kids should have known better than to ask.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by victoriana

I 100% agree with you. If these minors did indeed ask the teacher for alcohol and she provided it, I would say that legally, the kids can't be held responsible but morally, they should be. They know that it's wrong for them to have alcohol. The teacher should have known better than to give it to them, but the kids should have known better than to ask.

This is ridiculous. The adult had both the legal and moral obligation. Children are children and the parents need to be the ones concerned with the corporal punishment if there is any.

Again, the alcohol is a facilitating factor for what allegedly came next.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by victoriana

If these minors did indeed ask the teacher for alcohol and she provided it, I would say that legally, the kids can't be held responsible but morally, they should be. They know that it's wrong for them to have alcohol. The teacher should have known better than to give it to them, but the kids should have known better than to ask.

Okay, I do agree with this to an extent. I see what you're saying. But I also agree that whatever happened after that exchange (and during for the most part) is morally and legally the fault of the teacher. Asking for what you shouldn't have is wrong but that's like .00001% of the fault to bare in this case.

*It's terrible how many HP metaphors are going through my mind. I'll spare you all my nerdiness and keep them to myself.*

If this does go to trial, she's going to have one hell of a time getting a "fair" anything. Dee is right--in cases like this, the person is often crucified by the media before it even gets that far. I do believe in innocent 'til proven guilty but 53 counts...doggone. All I can do is SMH and wonder WHAT was she thinking.

[DSTRen13]

It's also important to bear in mind that even when you are looking at a case where the student is of age, but still a student, it is still wrong. Not *as* wrong, but still wrong - the student/teacher relationship is a power thing, and no matter the age, the teacher is still committing a gross violation of their status as an authority figure.

When I was in high school, we had one of these situations come up with a female teacher and one of the guys who was in my class year. I don't know all the legal details, but they both left the school and their families (he left his parents & she left her husband and children). Last I heard, they're still together. To this day I find the whole thing incredibly disturbing.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

It's also important to bear in mind that even when you are looking at a case where the student is of age, but still a student, it is still wrong. Not *as* wrong, but still wrong - the student/teacher relationship is a power thing, and no matter the age, the teacher is still committing a gross violation of their status as an authority figure.

When I was in high school, we had one of these situations come up with a female teacher and one of the guys who was in my class year. I don't know all the legal details, but they both left the school and their families (he left his parents & she left her husband and children). Last I heard, they're still together. To this day I find the whole thing incredibly disturbing.

There is a difference between morally/ethically wrong and illegal though.

The article is clearly poorly written. A "minor" is different depending on whether you're talking about alcohol, tobacco/voting, or age of consent. It's an inconsistent term that should have been clarified. Someone can be a minor in relation to alcohol but legally of consent and able to get married.

[*winter*]

Sorry, it's probably just best to "agree to disagree" but the kids were being KIDS...which is where ADULTS need to be adults.

No matter how people phrase it, it sounds like the girl got raped after the party because she allowed herself to get drunk. A middle school kid curious about alcohol should not have to become a victim of sexual abuse to satisfy that curiosity. In a perfect world, middle school kids wouldn't be dreaming of such things. But in this world- Earth- kids can and do think about experimenting with alcohol. That's where ADULTS come in to point them in the right direction...to use it as a learning opportunity, not to say "Hey the state store is around the corner; I'm driving!"

I don't care if they asked the teacher for freaking heroin, the bottom line is, SHE was the teacher, SHE is an ADULT...and no matter what idea may pop into her head at that moment, SHE is responsible for controlling her actions and responses, PERIOD. And if she can't "handle" that...then don't BE a teacher.

I wonder what it was about that particular teacher that made kids think she'd buy alcohol? I mean, I'm not a teacher- yet- but I don't think being asked to buy beer is a common middle-school phenomenon. Lots of times these "predator-teachers" are the "fun" ones who use an easy sequey into the adult world, and adult things (like smoking, alcohol, sex, porn, etc) to get kids to show an interest in THEM.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The article is clearly poorly written. A "minor" is different depending on whether you're talking about alcohol, tobacco/voting, or age of consent. It's an inconsistent term that should have been clarified. Someone can be a minor in relation to alcohol but legally of consent and able to get married.

Beyond the fact that it is a poorly written article, the teacher is being accused of giving alcohol to minors--contributing to the delinquency of a minor--and statutory rape. Where is the confusion regarding whether or not the alleged victims are minors?

This discussion would have gone a lot different if this was a male teacher and female student; or male teacher and male student.

There probably would not be the following:

1.) Reminder of "innocent until proven guilty" (the title of this thread says "accused of...");

2.) Mention that the teenagers could be partly responsible since they requested alcohol;

3.) Mention of this potentially being one big misunderstanding; or

4.) Mention of people who have been wrongly accused in the past.

The fact that this thread has taken this turn is another gendered double standard. People are much more likely to consider alleged female offenders to be more along the lines of another victim than a perpetrator.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Beyond the fact that it is a poorly written article, the teacher is being accused of giving alcohol to minors--contributing to the delinquency of a minor--and statutory rape. Where is the confusion regarding whether or not the alleged victims are minors?

This discussion would have gone a lot different if this was a male teacher and female student; or male teacher and male student.

There probably would not be the following:

1.) Reminder of "innocent until proven guilty" (the title of this thread says "accused of...");

2.) Mention that the teenagers could be partly responsible since they requested alcohol;

3.) Mention of this potentially being one big misunderstanding; or

4.) Mention of people who have been wrongly accused in the past.

The fact that this thread has taken this turn is another gendered double standard. People are much more likely to consider alleged female offenders to be more along the lines of another victim than a perpetrator.

The confusion is in the article itself where it said "depending on age". I'm just chalking it up to a poorly written article. I didn't know that 18 was the age of consent in TN when I said that. Most states have a lower age of consent so I was thinking that was some of the confusion.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here

"The devil doesn't need an advocate."

~ Me

Originally Posted by crosscaravan

...and say that while I do agree with you, I also think that may be the point she's trying to make, though. They requested it even though it's not legal for them to have it. From a legal standpoint, the kids aren't responsible - she should have known better than to actually listen to the kids, for goodness' sake. She's the adult in that situation. But assuming all these charges are true, she may not have considered giving them the alcohol if they hadn't asked.

Like you said, legally they can't be held even partially responsible for requesting it, because she should have known better than to say "lol, that's fine, what kind do you want?" Morally, it's even worse - but from a non-legal standpoint, the fact that the kids asked for something that they knew was illegal could show that they knew that what they were doing was wrong, but they chose to do it anyway.

I mean, think what you may of the cognitive abilities of minors, but I'm still pretty sure most middle school kids know that alcohol is a no-no.

As for the bolded, idiots and wrongdoers are among the reasons why we have laws to protect children.

Dear Accused Teacher, Little Tommy cannot request sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll. He can't.