Shutter Fraternities for Young Women's Good

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by agzg

Shutting down fraternities would not be an effective way to address rape culture on campus or anywhere else.

My exact thought.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by agzg

As an aside, it irks me that colleges are trying to handle sexual assault themselves, rather than turning over such cases when they are reported to the police.

No violent crime should be handled "in house."

Which brings us back to the last few posts of this thread: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=119237

.. which demonstrates exactly what can happen when this is attempted.

Originally Posted by AGD1978

This.

And she was frightened into withdrawing from school by the mere sight of a fraternity house? Really? Architecture, as a general thing, doesn't usually frighten people that badly. Maybe it wasn't actually the house that did her in, but the landscaping. The shrubberies.

LOL.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by katydidKD

I agree the article is crap, but saying women only report sexual assault because they can and were trained how to, and not because they were assaulted, is such a huge problem/false/contributes to rape culture I don't even know where to begin.

Reading is fundamental.

Munchkin03: contributing to campus rape culture since 2011.

[HannahXO]

Originally Posted by agzg

As an aside, it irks me that colleges are trying to handle sexual assault themselves, rather than turning over such cases when they are reported to the police.

No violent crime should be handled "in house."

I could not agree with this more. I don't understand how not going to the police in such a case is even legal. How on earth is getting suspended for a semester or two an appropriate punishment for rape?!?! or even getting kicked out of school? Those cases need to go to a courtroom.

That said, I understand how painful it can be for a victim to have to relive her experiences through a trial. But still...would murder be dealt with through a campus judicial board?

Anddd back on topic with the thread, an assault happened recently on my campus that was committed by a non-greek student at a fraternity house. The brothers have definitely taken the fall out for it, and people now constantly refer to that house as unsafe because it the brothers are "rapists." Really, all they are guilty of is really poor risk management, and that issue has been addressed. The problem is that a GLO is so easy to blame under these circumstances.

[jflynn]

Wall Street Journal’s “Shutter Fraternities for Young Women’s Good” Offers Faulty Logic and Wrong Conclusion

Apparently Phi Delta Theta's General Council President got wind of the article and wrote the above rebuttal. I couldn't have said it better myself:

This is the story of a despicable rape and its aftermath – not a story about fraternities. A sound argument is a valid argument with true premises – this article provided neither. Please don’t use poor logic, and lack of facts, to paint all of us fraternity men with a broad brush due to the inexcusable actions of a few – it just isn’t right.

[PiKA2001]

This lady sounds like a nut.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

This lady sounds like a nut.

That's all that really needs to be said.

[DaffyKD]

Let me get this straight. This lady was raped in a fraternity house 27 years ago. By my calculations, whether the culprits were prosecuted or not, none of they are still in school. As a result of her nightmare, all fraternities should be shuttered now?? Guilty by association?

What about men who have an apartment and have parties in their apartments, should that now be made illegal? Coed dorms-- illegal since men are in close proximity to young ladies and can rape them? Oh, lets not forget the young men who live at home and commute to school-- should they no longer be allowed on college campuses for fear they COULD rape a woman?

Should all schools be same sex?

This is one very illogical article.

DaffyKD

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

My fourth night at school, I went with some friends to Rugby Road, where the fraternity houses are located. They are built of the same Jeffersonian architecture as the rest of the campus. At once august and moldering, they seemed sinister, to stand for male power at its most malevolent and institutionally condoned. I remember standing there thinking I'd made a terrible mistake. It wasn't worth it, I decided. The next day I withdrew from the university."

Hey, don't laugh. Preppies everywhere felt the same when they saw their first Hot Topic. Why do you think LL Bean's catalog business is so big? BECAUSE HOT TOPIC IN ITS SINISTERISM AND MALEVOLVENCE SENT PREPPIES RUNNING AND SCREAMING FROM MALLS ACROSS THE NATION.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DaffyKD

Let me get this straight. This lady was raped in a fraternity house 27 years ago. By my calculations, whether the culprits were prosecuted or not, none of they are still in school. As a result of her nightmare, all fraternities should be shuttered now?? Guilty by association?

No, Liz Seccuro (the one who was raped 27 years ago) talks in her book about how one of her rapists was making his AA amends and came forward to her. From a brief google, she doesn't seem to be focusing on the fact that it happened at a fraternity house (although it did), rather on her ultimately getting justice, and on forgiveness and redemption.

Caitlin Flanagan (google her name, apparently the gender feminists AND the equity feminists both hate her) is the one who wants all fraternities to be closed down because that will automatically eliminate rape. She is an idiot.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No, Liz Seccuro (the one who was raped 27 years ago) talks in her book about how one of her rapists was making his AA amends and came forward to her. From a brief google, she doesn't seem to be focusing on the fact that it happened at a fraternity house (although it did), rather on her ultimately getting justice, and on forgiveness and redemption.

Caitlin Flanagan (google her name, apparently the gender feminists AND the equity feminists both hate her) is the one who wants all fraternities to be closed down because that will automatically eliminate rape. She is an idiot.

Normally, regardless of how you feel about her, Caitlin Flanagan's essays make sense. This one does not.

Liz Seccuro (the actual victim) ended up joining a sorority at UVA. None of the articles I've read about her mention any indictment of the Greek system or even that specific fraternity (she did mention that she avoided that house)--it seems like she understands that it could have happened anywhere.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by agzg

Shutting down fraternities would not be an effective way to address rape culture on campus or anywhere else.

This. But also, universities need to do a better job of shutting shit down when it happens. The only thing that made the Yale fraternity different than the other students was the fact they were chanting it in public. Yeah, that makes campus incredibly hostile to women, and I'm thrilled the women at Yale stood up and didn't back down about it from what I've seen.

But like you said in a later post, this whole "handling sexual assault cases internally" bullshit has got to end.

Personally, as important as women's safety lectures are, I'd like to see more: Here is what rape is, it is not ok, ever. Here is what consent is, you must have this or it is rape.

Blah blah stop trying to protect our daughters and instead raise our sons not to be rapists.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

This. But also, universities need to do a better job of shutting shit down when it happens. The only thing that made the Yale fraternity different than the other students was the fact they were chanting it in public. Yeah, that makes campus incredibly hostile to women, and I'm thrilled the women at Yale stood up and didn't back down about it from what I've seen.

But like you said in a later post, this whole "handling sexual assault cases internally" bullshit has got to end.

Personally, as important as women's safety lectures are, I'd like to see more: Here is what rape is, it is not ok, ever. Here is what consent is, you must have this or it is rape.

Blah blah stop trying to protect our daughters and instead raise our sons not to be rapists.

Amen to the bolded.

I haven't read any piece by this author before, but she sounds batshit crazy in this one.

[agzg]

When I was a collegian, there was only one sexual assault lecture that we had to have something like 40% of our chapters attend. It made a difference among my fraternity friends. Mandatory and more frequent programming (like the alcohol stuff we had to do every year) might be more effective. I do think some men's groups have this through their national organization, but right now we as Greek organizations are doing a great job at educating women about sexual assault, but a really shitty job at educating men.

It's fucked up that we teach people not to murder, but don't teach them not to rape.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But like you said in a later post, this whole "handling sexual assault cases internally" bullshit has got to end.

Personally, as important as women's safety lectures are, I'd like to see more: Here is what rape is, it is not ok, ever. Here is what consent is, you must have this or it is rape.

About 15 years ago, there was a major controversy at my undergrad because of a sexual assault. He said it was consensual, she couldn't remember. The U tried to handle it internally and failed. He sued the school and they all ended up settling for millions of dollars. (I'm simplifying it a lot here but it just goes to how the "internal handling" can backfire for the accused as well as the accuser.)

One result of that whole mess is that we have excellent sexual assault awareness seminars during orientation, and it's pretty much how you described it. I know that the Greeks all had to have additional training (this could have been nationally mandated), as did any organization that wanted to host a party on-campus.