Are you @#$%ing kidding me??

[PhoenixAzul]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Thanks for the moo plug, because I just checked them out and think they look far better than other suggestions I've gotten for my show announcements. Are they quick?

I like this whole idea. It's genuinely never occurred to me but I think I might have some made for both social and academic situations. Sounds like a great way to stand out a little.

Yes, I found their turnaround to be very quick, and I get a load of compliments on the cards I designed there. Their in-house design thing on their website is fantastic and easy to use. Plus, I chipped in the extra $2 and got the recycled ones. I'm a dork.

My work ones are just so boring (and ugly), but they're still my work ones, so I have to have them.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by agzg

I don't have kids, but if I were single I'd think of having calling cards made up.

That's the thing -- these are business cards, not calling cards. Miss Manners weeps that people don't know the difference anymore. And calling cards traditionally don't have contact information on them, just names -- though I can see how times could change on this one.

I'll admit it -- I'm laughing at them, and shaking my head at them. Anyone finding their identity in being someone's Mom (or Dad) is sad.

[detour for story]

A co-worker came by my office a few weeks ago. A friend of his had "inherited" a jar that was full of business and calling cards. For whatever reason, they were going through it and found my grandparent's calling card, which would have had to have been left at least 50 years ago. He btrought me the card. Kind of cool, and also kind of wierd that someone left those cards in a jar for 50 years.

[/detour]

[agzg]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

That's the thing -- these are business cards, not calling cards. Miss Manners weeps that people don't know the difference anymore. And calling cards traditionally don't have contact information on them, just names -- though I can see how times could change on this one.

I'll admit it -- I'm laughing at them, and shaking my head at them. Anyone finding their identity in being someone's Mom (or Dad) is sad.

The thing is, I don't think the intention is for someone to find their entire identity in being someone's parent. At least, not any more than my entire identity is tied to my company when I use my business card.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

At least, not any more than my entire identity is tied to my company when I use my business card.

But, people can understand someone's career being their "entire identity" but not their family life (which should have a stronger and more time consuming hold on their life) being their "entire identity."

It is also no coincidence that women are the brunt of the joke more often than men.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

That's the thing -- these are business cards, not calling cards.

Exactly, hence my Elsa Maxwell reference. (Google it, kids)

Wouldn't it be a better idea to get a card that simply has your name and #s on it - that idea's been pushed for years by stationery companies - and depending on who you give it to, they can write a note on it as to who you are? That way one card works for Aiden's Mom, Possible New Account Executive, and Chick With Major League Yabbos I Met At Applebee's.

Not being a mom, I guess this is a dumb question. Is it getting to the point where kids' parents have no idea who they're playing with/socializing with any more? Maybe that's a raised in a small town thing, but I guess I just don't get who you need to give these to.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That's extremely judgmental and labeling. There are plenty of parents who are proud that their master status is that of parent. That includes but is not limited to stay-at-home parents (some of whom have advanced degrees) whose full-time job is to proudly raise their children until they reach a certain age.

Maybe so. Admonishment accepted.

In my defense, I guess what I'm reacting to are the parents I've (personally) seen who make being a parent the defining aspect of their identity. Once the child is grown, they are totally adrift. I know many parents who are justifiably proud of what they did as parents and consider their greatest accomplishment, and rightfully so. Where I get uncomfortable is when the parent loses himself or herself in parenthood, and that's what I was referring to.

And while I'm at it, I'll say that my opinion in this thread may be colored by the fact that I'm not a "card person." I forget (or don't bother) to carry business cards on me most of the time. I probably hand out fewer than one dozen a year. As for calling cards, about the only time my wife and I use them is in wedding presents or the like. I'm not criticizing people who get them or hand them out at all -- I'm just saying that's not me.


It's almost Lent. I'll try to do better with my judgmentalism.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Maybe so. Admonishment accepted.

In my defense, I guess what I'm reacting to are the parents I've (personally) seen who make being a parent the defining aspect of their identity. Once the child is grown, they are totally adrift. I know many parents who are justifiably proud of what they did as parents and consider their greatest accomplishment, and rightfully so. Where I get uncomfortable is when the parent loses himself or herself in parenthood, and that's what I was referring to.

That's fair--it was the blanket statement that threw me off. I'm not unfamiliar with the phenomenon of the parent who wraps her identity around a child. One woman in particular, a former co-worker, has revolved her entire life around her three-year old daughter. Her daughter's come before her livelihood (no matter how much you love your child, you really need to be able to keep a roof over his/her head) and her marriage (which really should come first). This woman had a pretty terrible childhood and didn't have a lot going on for her (job, education, friends) UNTIL she had her daughter.

Granted, that's a lot of pathology going on there, but to some extent I understand why she did it. I hope she pulls back enough to allow her daughter to have some sort of a life, though.

I'd worry about a mother like that way earlier than I'd worry about a college-educated, happily-married woman with or without an out-of-the-home job who wants to pass out "mommy cards."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It took everything in me to tell you that I considered that judgmental and labeling. Thanks for not making me feel worse than I already felt for telling you that.

This is about gender socialization which translates into family and parenting processes. Women are more likely than men to be socialized to believe that parenting should be the defining aspect of their identity. It is very easy to lose yourself in something that you have done for so long, that you are so proud of, and that society at large has told you that you should immerse yourself in. People do that with their careers all of the time. I don't see why people see that as less ridiculous than losing yourself in parenting. The average person is a (insert occupation/education level) when you meet them and you often have to say "okay...that's what you got a degree in and do for a living...what do you enjoy when you aren't doing that" for them to go beyond what they consider to be their crowning glory.

Beyond that, this topic really isn't about the extremes of helicopter parents and parents who don't know who they are without their children (although remembering who you are without your children can also be difficult for more "full-time parents"). There are parents who are proud parents, first and foremost, but have a sense of balance with the help of others. It can't be done alone.

All very good points. And for the record, I also try very hard to guard against being the dad/husband/person who is defined by his work. It's a discussion my wife and I have had many times -- how part of how we (try to) parent well is by (trying to) model a balanced life for a our kids. I had parents who modelled it well.

I don't "celebrate" Lent but I am also working on my judgmental ways, among other things that are not pleasing in God's sight.

I don't "celebrate" it either; I "observe" it.

But otherwise, yeah.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is about gender socialization which translates into family and parenting processes. Women are more likely than men to be socialized to believe that parenting should be the defining aspect of their identity.

And the best way to fight socialization is to take an active mental stance on fighting it, right?

So passive elements that play into socialization (particularly since the 'worst' socialization comes from internalization) are likely more pernicious than they may appear at first glance, no?

[Senusret I]

^^^ I can understand that to an extent. I think people are mentally associating the Mommy Brigade with those cards, that is, we already know the annoying mom's who would get them.

On another note, though, when I am working on behalf of an organization, I need for my identity to be tied to that company. It has affected my ability to do business when people find out I'm also an author. (Sometimes.)

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^^^ I can understand that to an extent. I think people are mentally associating the Mommy Brigade with those cards, that is, we already know the annoying mom's who would get them.

On another note, though, when I am working on behalf of an organization, I need for my identity to be tied to that company. It has affected my ability to do business when people find out I'm also an author. (Sometimes.)

My counterpoint would be that when moms and dads are networking with other parents, it's helpful for their identity to be tied to their kids, because the likelihood that another parent is going to remember YOUR name rather than your kid's name is slim. Just because their identity is tied doesn't mean that's their entire identity.

I'm sure the mommy brigade is going nuts over these, but I can also see working parents finding them useful so that they're not that asshole parent flaunting their job all over the place by handing out business cards as contact information.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by agzg

My counterpoint would be that when moms and dads are networking with other parents, it's helpful for their identity to be tied to their kids, because the likelihood that another parent is going to remember YOUR name rather than your kid's name is slim. Just because their identity is tied doesn't mean that's their entire identity.

I agree. Also, so many kids don't have the same last name as their moms, with blended families and mothers who didn't change their names upon marriage, or mothers who use their maiden name professionally and their married name personally (which would negate passing out a business card). A friend's parent/coach/teacher might not know "Jane Smith" as "Tommy Miller's mom," a card with "Jane Miller" would be good for people whose sole connection to the person is through the kid.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Anyone finding their identity in being someone's Mom (or Dad) is sad.

Yikes. Judgemental much? It doesn't necessarily have to be someone's whole identity. But I don't think that's what this is about. I saw it more as a compartmentalizing thing so your kid's social activities don't take over your life. If anything, I could see myself using these because my kid's friend's mom doesn't need to know my work e-mail, but might want to have my personal e-mail address.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Yikes. Judgemental much?

Not at all.

Considering how we mock and decry "helicopter parenting" he's exactly on the right track. Pride in your child, pride in parenting, all that good stuff is completely separate from basing your own identity on your child. The latter is the genesis for helicopter parenting - the cognitive dissonance loop that begins with "My child's successes/failures are my own" and ends with "My baby couldn't be _____________."

These cards have a time and place - I'd hope they'll be used by people with agzg's line of thinking, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're not. As a "compartmentalization" I find it ... lacking, in that you usually don't compartmentalize by drawing attention and giving yourself the easy ability to integrate it into other, unrelated areas.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Not at all.

Considering how we mock and decry "helicopter parenting" around here, piling on MC is insane, because he's exactly on the right track. Pride in your child, pride in parenting, all that good stuff is completely separate from basing your own identity on your child. The latter is the genesis for helicopter parenting - the cognitive dissonance loop that begins with "My child's successes/failures are my own" and ends with "My baby couldn't be _____________."

As always, you've summed it up better than I could have. I agree with both you and MC.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Not at all.

Considering how we mock and decry "helicopter parenting" he's exactly on the right track. Pride in your child, pride in parenting, all that good stuff is completely separate from basing your own identity on your child. The latter is the genesis for helicopter parenting - the cognitive dissonance loop that begins with "My child's successes/failures are my own" and ends with "My baby couldn't be _____________."

I think there's a difference between this and "helicopter parenting," the latter I clearly detest. Whether we like it or not, when one becomes a parent, some aspect of their identity is wrapped up into being a parent. That doesn't mean that your whole life revolves around your kid--it's just that you can't disassociate it.

Again, this doesn't bother me so much because I can't imagine handing a kid's coach my work business card. It wouldn't say "Mommy," but it would be a personal card. I see it as a way of setting boundaries between personal life and professional life.