Living-in vs Living-out

[33girl]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

The idea that drinking in letters is inappropriate bothers me too, while I'm on this tangent...men do it. It's encouraged for them. But for us? Nope. Not allowed. It's a big deal! Why? Maybe we should be looking at the specific instances in which it is a big deal, many of which don't involve drinking, instead of just randomly banning it across all boards. Again - nothing wrong with a sorority woman wearing a lavalier having a drink with dinner. Yet that in itself is demonized?

FWIW, back in the day it was encouraged for women - as in, "if you wear your sorority letters you get into the fraternity party free and don't have to be on the guest list." #1, the guys didn't have to worry about offending a sorority woman they didn't know well by saying "who the eff are you?" #2, it was good publicity for women to meet rushees. #3, it's winter and it's effing cold, and letter sweatshirts are far more sensible than dry clean only hoochie wear. I mean, chapter consultants saw us go off to parties in letters and said nothing, in fact wore letters to parties themselves. But off that tangent. I still say all these "OMG NOT IN LETTERS" rules came about when pledging got easier. Whether they're related or just a coincidence, I'm not really sure.

fantASTic - I thought your campus was similar to mine and the houses were smaller? Anyhoo, I do think the "a 21 year old can't drink A beer" is stupid in any size dwelling, but I can understand the no shacking rules in a large house. It's one thing to have 16 girls and all know each other well enough to know what is and isn't permissible. It's another to live with 60 girls, not all of whom you are close to. The way I look at it is...that's like a dorm. We were allowed to shack in dorms, but only on certain nights and we had to keep an eye on our male guests (and vice versa) at all times.

Then again, there seems to be a lot less understanding going around these days. One of my dorm-mates basically had her boyfriend living in her room - I can't remember why, but I think he had some sort of issues with his living situation. They were always respectful and no one on the floor complained or told the RA because we felt bad that he was stuck. I just can't see that happening today - people are much quicker to fink on their fellow man.

[aephi alum]

My chapter didn't have a house while I was an undergrad, so I never had to make that choice. I lived in the dorms all 4 years of undergrad, then moved into married-student housing with my then-fiancé for my graduate year.

The dorms weren't actually all that different from apartment living. We had to vacuum our own rooms and dump our trash, although physical plant staff cleaned our bathrooms, kitchens, lounges, and hallways. The on-campus dining options were vomitrocious, so if you wanted halfway decent food, you had to cook for yourself - and that meant not just cooking but also doing dishes. (Fortunately, I'm a good cook, and my dorm had full kitchen facilities in every suite.)

Plus, I could keep a bottle of brandy or gin in my room and have the occasional drink, which I could not have done if I'd lived in a chapter house (no boozahol allowed in AEPhi houses even if you're of legal drinking age). And I could crash at the fiancé's place or have him crash at my place repercussion-free.

Given the choice, I don't think I would have chosen to live in-house.

[Leslie Anne]

I was a senior (with 2 years left) by the time I had a chance to live in the house. I chose not to and I've regretted it ever since. I missed out on so much!

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by 33girl

FWIW, back in the day it was encouraged for women - as in, "if you wear your sorority letters you get into the fraternity party free and don't have to be on the guest list." #1, the guys didn't have to worry about offending a sorority woman they didn't know well by saying "who the eff are you?" #2, it was good publicity for women to meet rushees. #3, it's winter and it's effing cold, and letter sweatshirts are far more sensible than dry clean only hoochie wear. I mean, chapter consultants saw us go off to parties in letters and said nothing, in fact wore letters to parties themselves. But off that tangent. I still say all these "OMG NOT IN LETTERS" rules came about when pledging got easier. Whether they're related or just a coincidence, I'm not really sure.

fantASTic - I thought your campus was similar to mine and the houses were smaller? Anyhoo, I do think the "a 21 year old can't drink A beer" is stupid in any size dwelling, but I can understand the no shacking rules in a large house. It's one thing to have 16 girls and all know each other well enough to know what is and isn't permissible. It's another to live with 60 girls, not all of whom you are close to. The way I look at it is...that's like a dorm. We were allowed to shack in dorms, but only on certain nights and we had to keep an eye on our male guests (and vice versa) at all times.

Then again, there seems to be a lot less understanding going around these days. One of my dorm-mates basically had her boyfriend living in her room - I can't remember why, but I think he had some sort of issues with his living situation. They were always respectful and no one on the floor complained or told the RA because we felt bad that he was stuck. I just can't see that happening today - people are much quicker to fink on their fellow man.

I've no idea if it's related to the new pledge rules; I wasn't around during the change. But I just think we should be treating ourselves and our collegiate sisters as adults - not as small children.

As for the shacking, I think it should be left up to individual chapters to decide based on living arrangements. Example: if all girls have their own bedrooms, or their roommate is out of town and does not mind, I do not see the problem. I also don't see a problem with the "certain nights only" or "only so many days a month" rule; I think those are actually good peacekeeping rules.

My campus is medium-sized. Average chapter size is around 80.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

I've no idea if it's related to the new pledge rules; I wasn't around during the change. But I just think we should be treating ourselves and our collegiate sisters as adults - not as small children.

As for the shacking, I think it should be left up to individual chapters to decide based on living arrangements. Example: if all girls have their own bedrooms, or their roommate is out of town and does not mind, I do not see the problem. I also don't see a problem with the "certain nights only" or "only so many days a month" rule; I think those are actually good peacekeeping rules.

My campus is medium-sized. Average chapter size is around 80.

I think it depends on the school. Since our chapter house was campus housing within the Greek quad, campus rules overrode sorority rules. As I've mentioned before, my college is notoriously lenient and there weren't any shacking rules since it was technically a dorm. We did have a stipulation saying that men weren't allowed in chapter-specific rooms, which I still don't understand. No one complained about shacking, even in the case of the chapter president my sophomore year, whose boyfriend basically lived in the house.

[PiPhiERDoc]

Rules about men not being in the house also have some very practical safety reasons behind them.

If you live in a chapter house that holds 50+ women, good chance that you will not know everyone's male friends/boyfriends ect. So you will think nothing about some random guy wandering the halls, right? And what happens if that guy is actually NOT a guest, but has broken into the house with the intent of assaulting a woman?

This has happened at many campuses, including a series of sexual assaults that happened at Washington State University exactly because of this scenerio, ie women not complying with their man-hour rules, women in the house becoming used to seeing random guys around, and not being able to recognize someone who shouldn't have been there until their sister was assaulted.

There are also all kinds of theft and property damage issues...plus insurance premiums...

[MUSK81]

I lived in for 2 1/2 years and loved every minute of it, but my parents lived in town and I could go home whenever I wanted. I also had an off-campus job that gave me an escape from the drama (although a lot of times I was just exchanging one kind of drama for another.) I had a little more freedom than I had living at home, but my parents still kept tabs on me. Case in point - I had a very early dentist appointment one morning. I went to it, then stopped by the Lambda Chi house where my boyfriend lived. Later that morning, I got a call from my mom - "What was your car doing parked in back of the Lambda Chi house at 9:00 this morning?" I told her about the dentist appt. and she was like "Well, we were afraid you'd let so-and-so drive your car home." Yeah, right! I was in the clear that time, but it taught me to leave my car at the house when I wasn't going to be there!

[PhoenixAzul]

I never lived-in, but our house only had 5 bedrooms. I did spend a lot of time at the house, just hanging out and cooking dinner, but for me, it would have been not so good for my studying. I'm a bit of a monastic when it comes to studying...in grad school and in undergrad I had to lock myself in my room to work and I wouldn't come out. I had to cut myself off from all distractions (unplugging the internet and my phone) to get quality studying done.

Also, as a studio art student, I had to spend some ridiculous hours in the art building, which made me not a good housemate. While I wasn't coming home drunk at 2 am, I was stumbling around with a massive portfolio and a huge camera bag.

I lived in dorms my first two years, also when I lived in Ireland, then in suites my last year, then in dorms during the first 3/4 of grad school and then in an apartment with a friend. Out of all of those situations (which were a struggle in all sorts of ways), the worst was the grad apartment with a "friend". We are no longer so.

[ADPiKT]

Gosh I'm so jealous of those that actually had a house! My university only recently allowed the construction of sorority houses (not to be lived in), and they will not be completed for several years. I will be rooming with a few of my sisters this year in off campus apts, but I really think I missed out on bonding with some of my other sisters!

[Lady Pi]

I'm living in the house for the first time this coming academic year. I am so excited!!! Getting on the list to live in the house is pretty competitive in my chapter, almost everyone wants to live in. Mainly sophomores and juniors though, seniors tend to live off campus unless they have an important office. Our house has strict rules about drinking and boys so I guess they want some freedom their last year.

[KSUViolet06]

A little late to this one.

I lived-in during my last year.

I had always lived in a single suite on campus, so I was a little reluctant to give that up.

I was so glad I did. My house roomie is one of my closest friends now.

I also appeciated being able to throw on meeting clothes at 6:50 and walk downstairs for 7:00 pm chapter meeting.

THe whole no drinking thing was no big deal to me just because I had friends with apartments. And there were bars.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PiPhiERDoc

Rules about men not being in the house also have some very practical safety reasons behind them.

If you live in a chapter house that holds 50+ women, good chance that you will not know everyone's male friends/boyfriends ect. So you will think nothing about some random guy wandering the halls, right? And what happens if that guy is actually NOT a guest, but has broken into the house with the intent of assaulting a woman?

This has happened at many campuses, including a series of sexual assaults that happened at Washington State University exactly because of this scenerio, ie women not complying with their man-hour rules, women in the house becoming used to seeing random guys around, and not being able to recognize someone who shouldn't have been there until their sister was assaulted.

There are also all kinds of theft and property damage issues...plus insurance premiums...

We didn't have houses at my school and I know that if we did, I probably wouldn't have lived in because of the extra rules. However, I totally understand the NEED for those rules simply by living in an apartment with two other women, one of whom brought home random guys all the time. It was really a nightmare. You get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom, maybe in just a t-shirt and dash out of your room to find random guy sitting on the couch.. ugh. It sucked. We all had our own bedrooms but we shared common space too. Where would the men go to the bathroom if they stayed over night? There are just so many issues with it. Sure, I had the same boyfriend from the beginning of my sophomore year until I graduated and everybody knew him. Totally not the case when there are 60 women in a house.

As for the alcohol one, it's all about the risk management insurance.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by AGDee

We didn't have houses at my school and I know that if we did, I probably wouldn't have lived in because of the extra rules. However, I totally understand the NEED for those rules simply by living in an apartment with two other women, one of whom brought home random guys all the time. It was really a nightmare. You get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom, maybe in just a t-shirt and dash out of your room to find random guy sitting on the couch.. ugh. It sucked. We all had our own bedrooms but we shared common space too. Where would the men go to the bathroom if they stayed over night? There are just so many issues with it. Sure, I had the same boyfriend from the beginning of my sophomore year until I graduated and everybody knew him. Totally not the case when there are 60 women in a house.

As for the alcohol one, it's all about the risk management insurance.

As I mentioned (I think), the boys in the house thing probably depends on the living arrangements...but I really still don't see anything wrong with the "work it out with the roommates" situation. Sounds like YOUR roommate was just a jerk

As for the insurance...I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. If that was the case, NPC wouldn't insist that we all had the same rule. Chapters would be able to decide to pay the extra insurance. That's not how it is, and that doesn't add up for me.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

As I mentioned (I think), the boys in the house thing probably depends on the living arrangements...but I really still don't see anything wrong with the "work it out with the roommates" situation. Sounds like YOUR roommate was just a jerk

As for the insurance...I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. If that was the case, NPC wouldn't insist that we all had the same rule. Chapters would be able to decide to pay the extra insurance. That's not how it is, and that doesn't add up for me.

Well whether they have the "dormers" or individual rooms, you end up having to work it out with 50 other girls, not just the one.

And as for the alcohol, the members of the NPC voted on it, there isn't really an outside entity insisting, there's the group of them agreeing. You can argue whether or not that's patronizing to women or not, but it was women who voted that rule into place either way. There are also a decent number of campuses that are dry even for 21 year olds. So .. i don't know where i fall on that except that it's perfectly possible for members to drink elsewhere.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Well whether they have the "dormers" or individual rooms, you end up having to work it out with 50 other girls, not just the one.

And as for the alcohol, the members of the NPC voted on it, there isn't really an outside entity insisting, there's the group of them agreeing. You can argue whether or not that's patronizing to women or not, but it was women who voted that rule into place either way. There are also a decent number of campuses that are dry even for 21 year olds. So .. i don't know where i fall on that except that it's perfectly possible for members to drink elsewhere.

Sure...people who are graduated and probably middle-aged voted on it. Not collegiates - who actually LIVE in the house.