Could I Fit In ..?

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by TexasPNM13

Hello, amazing Kappas!!

I want to be (one of) you!!


However, at the risk of facing rejection before recruitment has even begun, I must ask ...


Could I make it in a southern KKG chapter as an out queer woman with a girlfriend?


I'm a perfectionist. So, when it came to the prospect of recruitment I did my homework to find the perfect sorority for me. I researched every single sorority at my university and found myself falling in love with Kappa Kappa Gamma: their mission, their values, their causes. (Even if I founded a new chapter of an existing lesbian sorority, it wouldn't be as good of a fit for me. And frankly, I don't have that kind of time.)


But ... I did some research on the non-discimination by-laws for each sorority. Unfortunately, Kappa Kappa Gamma does not have any by-laws pertaining to sexual orientation.


Also, I tried to find some more-tangible advice about queer women in sororities via GreekChat though it just wasn't clear or relevant enough for me (I guess that's the Aries coming out in me).

Some Things About Me:
- If you saw me walking down the street by myself, you would never guess that I have a girlfriend.
- I am in love with learning and am graduating with a double degree (three more years). Semester GPA = 4.0, Cumulative GPA = 3.6ish. I know exactly what I want to do with my career.
- I love the environment and interned with a prominent environmental activist organization last Fall.
- I love art museums.
- I'm quite involved within my community (not just the gay community), love participating in philanthropy events and always will.
- I adore food.
- I am working on a business proposal for a cafe near my campus in 2011 (with a little help from my girlfriend, who graduated with a double major in Business and Marketing).
- I stay classy.
- Hooking up with sorority sisters is not on my list of things to do.


My Concerns:
- I knew sorority girls at my previous institution up north, but I hear that greek life in the South is a whole different ball game.
- Even if I could win my chapter over, I would be so sad to not feel included in my sorority at a national level. All the extra obstacles that I expect to face as a queer Greek at my new university would not be as worthwhile.
- I am moderately involved within the gay community. I've participated in womens organizations, picketed against Prop 8, volunteered at a couple other events, and plan to be involved with the Pride organization on-campus. While this is only a small part of who I am (besides mentioning my girlfriend, I rarely talk about my sexuality unless someone asks) and how I spend my time, I'm not exactly low-profile about being queer. Previous posters about related topics have expressed concern mostly when the GLB member wears their sexuality on their sleeve. Would this be wearing my sexuality on my sleeve?
- I'd be a little older than most of my pledge class. Would it be awkward to have a Big Sis who's younger than yourself?


I hope that wasn't too long. I normally don't talk this much about myself, but I thought some context would help. Any advice, ladies?


Sincerely,

TexasPNM13

TexasPNM13,

I'm not a Kappa, but I am involved in the recruitment process. Kappa is a great group of ladies and they have a great national organization. Perhaps you don't understand how the recruitment process works, but it is a mutual selection process and there are no guarantees that Kappa will invite you back or you'll even want to go back. What if you have nothing in common with the Kappa girls on your campus and fall in love with another group? Going into recruitment thinking you only want to be one thing is a recipe for heart break in my humble opinion.

There are lots of gay men and women involved in Greek organizations. I actually personally know many for what its worth, but most if not all did not come out until after college. I don't think that I would flat out advertise that your gay because a lot of people are narrow minded. Having said that unless you tell someone or have it listed on your application the sororities will never know. When you say this: Could I make it in a southern KKG chapter as an out queer woman with a girlfriend? Do you mean if you could make it if or when you become a member? I'm not sure even a TX Kappa could answer that for you.

If you want to go through recruitment at your university I would do so with an open mind. Good luck to you. You sound like a very nice articulate girl.

[LucyKKG]

Hello TexasPNM13,

I'm sure some people can go into more detail, but here's the summarized version of what I think about your post:

- Go through recruitment so you can get a look at EACH chapter at your school. That's what recruitment is for. You may find that you fit better with a different organization (or who know, you could still be all about Kappa).

- Discretion is a good thing! You have given out a lot of personal information on the internet, and a lot of people read these boards.

- Being at a southern school, you may be at a disadvantage because you are older than a freshman. I am not an expert (at all) in regards to your school, but that's what I have heard multiple times. No one here can tell you what your chances are of getting a bid.

[thetygerlily]

1- We had lesbians and bisexual women in at least 2 of our three chapters at my school, including Kappa. Kappa as an organization does not discriminate on basis of sexual orientation, or this would not have happened. Several women I know of are still very involved as alumnae. However, every chapter is different in terms of personality and goals, so regardless of sexual orientation you may or may not fit in with them. It is a mutual selection process, which means that you must choose them AND they must choose you. That goes for all sororities and fraternities.

2- Yes, the south is a different ball game. Especially Texas. Read threads here about it. Just because it flew at my small private liberal arts school in the midwest does not mean that it'll go over at a SEC school.

3- You are an upperclassman & transfer, which makes you potentially less desirable at some schools and gives you next to no chance at others.

4- Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Yes, I love being a Kappa- but there are 25 other incredible NPC organizations, and fit is different at every school. I'm sure your school has many other NPC orgs as well as potentially locals and/or special interest groups. If you want to go through recruitment, give all of them a chance. Especially if recruitment is competitive and/or you already see yourself as having many potential roadblocks.

5- Good luck. You probably don't want to continue posting here, at least in this much detail. It's pretty easy to figure out who PNMs are, and you don't want anything you post online (like being uber-interested in one organization) to potentially count against you. If you do join an organization, I think we'd all love to hear about it and share in your excitement.

[xibair]

This is not sitting well with me. But okay.

Violetpretty, AXOrushadvisor, Drolefille, and many others have provided excellent advice on general sorority recruitment.
If you decide to go through recruitment, please do not wear a shirt that says “I’m Queer”.

That said, I am with AzTheta sitting in the bleachers except I am having a beer.

[LadyLonghorn]

TexasPNM13?

Oh. God. Please. Help. Give. Me. Strength. Trying. So. Hard. To. Be. Good.

In addition to the advice others have given you about having an open mind, you need to know that your use of a blue font while fawning over Kappas is inappropriate and offensive.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn

TexasPNM13?

I'm not assuming UT, but there's a good possibility that's what she means.

[TexasPNM13]

Wow, I honestly hadn't expected so many responses so soon.

Regarding the mutual selection process:
Learning more about recruitment at my school was definitely one of the first things I did, and I am acutely aware that the other sorority must choose me, too! I know that every chapter is different, but my thought process was that there must be a reason that a sorority girl can run into another sister she's never met and get along so well, yes? From my experience so far, it never hurts to do your research and aim just a little for what you want ... Being a Kappa is my dream right now, but if I end up finding a home somewhere else, I am completely fine with that. Though I do have my heart set on this sorority, I have definitely planned to go through recruitment with an open mind. If I've learned anything by coming out, it is to take stereotypes and opinions with a grain of salt!

Also, I knew that I wouldn't be able to get a definite yes/no answer to my question, but I hoped to gain a broader perspective about the idea of me joining a sorority ... and I definitely received some valuable insight. Thanks to all who replied!

@knight_shadow: I guess I have a thing or two to learn about protocol concerning colors. Thank you for letting me know, and I apologize if my poor attempt at a respectful gesture came off to you as presumptuous. Thank you for letting me know that HQ does not have jurisdiction over my membership. It was something I had wondered.

@violetpretty: Thank you for the heads up about sophomore standing. Yes, I am already preparing myself with the possibility of rejection. I've lost my share of relationships to coming out, so I am sure I could handle this if I had to. And come to think of it, yes I would still want to be Greek. Thank you for helping me realize that.

@AXOrushadvisor: Thank you so much for the advice and encouragement! By 'make it' I meant both be able make it as a member and then continue to be an involved member while also staying true to myself.

@Drolefille: Thank you for your explanation of queer. What exactly should I be reading more about?

@LucyKKG: Yes, I wondered about how much personal information to disclose. I decided I didn't care, but maybe I should delete this thread in a couple of days (can I do that?).

@thetygerlily: Thank you for your practical advice and objectivity. I truly appreciate it. I hadn't thought about how I would look if I ended up feeling more comfortable at a different house. I guess I was being too ballsy ...

@xibair: I do have a Legalize Gay shirt and an HRC shirt, but I'd like to think I would have a litte more tact than to wear them to recruitment ha.

@LadyLonghorn: As I have said to knight_shadow, I honestly was trying to be extra-respectful and by no means intended to offend. Apologies.

Overall, thanks to most for your responses and your civility. I know that not everyone agrees with who I'm dating.

[LadyLonghorn]

Originally Posted by TexasPNM13

Wow, I honestly hadn't expected so many responses so soon.

Regarding the mutual selection process:
Learning more about recruitment at my school was definitely one of the first things I did, and I am acutely aware that the other sorority must choose me, too! I know that every chapter is different, but my thought process was that there must be a reason that a sorority girl can run into another sister she's never met and get along so well, yes? From my experience so far, it never hurts to do your research and aim just a little for what you want ... Being a Kappa is my dream right now, but if I end up finding a home somewhere else, I am completely fine with that. Though I do have my heart set on this sorority, I have definitely planned to go through recruitment with an open mind. If I've learned anything by coming out, it is to take stereotypes and opinions with a grain of salt!

Also, I knew that I wouldn't be able to get a definite yes/no answer to my question, but I hoped to gain a broader perspective about the idea of me joining a sorority ... and I definitely received some valuable insight. Thanks to all who replied!

@knight_shadow: I guess I have a thing or two to learn about protocol concerning colors. Thank you for letting me know, and I apologize if my poor attempt at a respectful gesture came off to you as presumptuous. Thank you for letting me know that HQ does not have jurisdiction over my membership. It was something I had wondered.

@violetpretty: Thank you for the heads up about sophomore standing. Yes, I am already preparing myself with the possibility of rejection. I've lost my share of relationships to coming out, so I am sure I could handle this if I had to. And come to think of it, yes I would still want to be Greek. Thank you for helping me realize that.

@AXOrushadvisor: Thank you so much for the advice and encouragement! By 'make it' I meant both be able make it as a member and then continue to be an involved member while also staying true to myself.

@Drolefille: Thank you for your explanation of queer. What exactly should I be reading more about?

@LucyKKG: Yes, I wondered about how much personal information to disclose. I decided I didn't care, but maybe I should delete this thread in a couple of days (can I do that?).

@thetygerlily: Thank you for your practical advice and objectivity. I truly appreciate it. I hadn't thought about how I would look if I ended up feeling more comfortable at a different house. I guess I was being too ballsy ...

@xibair: I do have a Legalize Gay shirt and an HRC shirt, but I'd like to think I would have a litte more tact than to wear them to recruitment ha.

@LadyLonghorn: As I have said to knight_shadow, I honestly was trying to be extra-respectful and by no means intended to offend. Apologies.

Overall, thanks to most for your responses and your civility. I know that not everyone agrees with who I'm dating.

QFP

Here are just a few more words of advice. If you are going to be attending UT or any of the other major Greek schools in Texas, your chances of receiving a bid to a Kappa chapter are very very slim. That has nothing to do with your being a lesbian. These are extremely old and selective chapters with deep legacy traditions where the vast majority of new members are freshmen who are already well known by the women in the chapter. You seriously need to adjust your mindset before recruitment. I can't state this strongly enough.

Secondly, you need to think long and hard about how active sorority membership will affect your relationship. Sorority membership takes a very large amount of time, particularly in your first year. Aside from mandatory meetings, retreats, activities etc., there are also many mandatory social events. How is your GF going to feel being left out of these, particularly when you're off partying with a fraternity or you can't bring her to your formal? Or you're going away for the weekend with your sisters and a bunch of fraternity guys? Since she's already graduated, these things could be particularly vexing and seem very immature to her. These are the kinds of things that affect relationships between sorority members and their prior-to-joining GDI boyfriends. There are also live-in requirements for most houses. How will she feel about you living in a sorority house for a year or two?

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn

How is your GF going to feel being left out of these, particularly when you're off partying with a fraternity or you can't bring her to your formal?

Why would she not be able to bring her girlfriend to formal (assuming she gets a bid)?

Secondly, no one has brought this up yet, but as a transfer upperclassman, you'll need recs from alumnae. Recs are vital for freshmen and even more important for non-freshmen. If the deadlines have not already passed, register with the Alumnae Panhellenic closest to your home or find sorority women through your own network.

[33girl]

She has lots of other things (like the over-focus on Kappa and the upperclassman thing) that have kept people from getting a bid before we even touch on the queer issue. And yes, that word is in "take it back" mode.

[LadyLonghorn]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Why would she not be able to bring her girlfriend to formal (assuming she gets a bid)?

Secondly, no one has brought this up yet, but as a transfer upperclassman, you'll need recs from alumnae. Recs are vital for freshmen and even more important for non-freshmen. If the deadlines have not already passed, register with the Alumnae Panhellenic closest to your home or find sorority women through your own network.

You really don't know how things work down here. Just leave it at that.

At least with the big Texas schools where recommendations are required NO MATTER WHAT A PNM'S CLASS STANDING she is already way behind if she hasn't made arrangements for them already.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by TexasPNM13

Though I do have my heart set on this sorority, I have definitely planned to go through recruitment with an open mind.

Kind of hard to be open minded when your heart is set, isn't it?

As for deleting the thread, you can't. You can ask a moderator to do it, but it'll be up to them whether to do it or not.

Good luck.

[Drolefille]

There are a ton of threads in this forum about recruitment, those are the ones you should look at to get a feel for why asking if you could be a KKG wouldn't be the best idea.
A more appropriate post might have been about going through recruitment in the south while queer identified and whether that could be a hindrance to you. Many of the other things have been addressed.

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders even if you tended toward the impulsive right off the bat.

[TexasPNM13]

@Drolefille: Yes, I am definitely a little impulsive ... I should probably work on that. I realize now that I probably shouldn't have been so rash with my post. I thought I was minimizing the viewing pool by posting here and that it would be more personal. Clearly, I was mistaken, ha.

If I've already ruined my chances of joining any sorority now, then my bad ...

I guess I should delete the thread soon for damage control purposes. It's hard, because I'm usually not one to censor myself or back away ...

[TexasPNM13]

Oh, eff. I just realized that this shows up on the main board.