Capitalist vs. Socialistic

[BrandNewAdvisor]

Originally Posted by naraht

The Fraternities rush capitalistically, the Sororities rush socialistically.

I wouldn't say that sorority recruitment is socialist.
XYZ is small and works really hard at preparing for recruitment, but they have a bad reputation and take only a few members.
ABC is huge and doesn't really prepare and coasts along on a good reputation and take quota plus.
Even though XYZ works hard and needs more members it's not going to get them.
Granted over time XYZ's work would eventually pay off but that would require them to survive until that happens.
ABC's lack of work would eventually have a negative effect but if they are popular and consistently attract the popular types it would be easy to just coast.
Sororities have a say on who to take and pnms have a say on who they want to join (if at all).

It's been said before somewhere on here that women think that sorority makes them and men think that they make their fraternity. The systems have to be different to work with this.

A strong sorority has the Walmart effect. Some small business will make it, lots will fail and it's much harder for them to start and grow. For the pnms, even if you don't love Walmart it can end up being the only place to shop and even if it's not, it's just easier to go there since it's where everyone else goes. There's always going to be a higher price at the smaller/less popular sorority.

A strong fraternity is like a large boutique. If you don't like the stuff you are going to shop elsewhere. Some boutiques are larger than others but there isn't a change in cost. There isn't the criticism and rejection from the peer group. It isn't that big of a deal to prefer a less popular chapter.

I was in the least popular sorority and my fiance was in the least popular fraternity. My sisters and I were constantly working on how to fix ourselves, improve our social calendar etc to be on par with the other sororities. The guys didn't do anything or have anything less than the largest fraternity.

/moderately disappointed in my gender/

[33girl]

The CONCEPT of rush is textbook socialist, but of course the results are not (much like real socialism).

As far as the guys not having "anything less" than the largest fraternity, I'm guessing the guys who got absolutely no play from the most popular sorority girls because of the fraternity they were were in would disagree.

And as far as the popular sorority coasting, it depends on where you are, but in line with the culture's increasingly short term memory and instant nostalgia, you can't do this as much as you used to.

[DGTess]

NPC recruitment encourages superficiality. Therefore, long-term commitments are built after pledging. I doubt that's much different from fraternity experiences; long-term commitments are built in the years after pledging.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

NPC recruitment encourages superficiality.

Disagree. Formal rush encourages it (and even that's debatable, depending on the school). Many chapters of NPC groups recruit in manners other than formal rush.

The system is what the women make it. If the chapters have more than a hint of the superficial, that will be magnified during rush. But if the women as a whole are down to earth and could care less about fashion or status, a week of formal rush with scheduled parties and bid matching is not going to turn them or the rushees into Paris Hilton clones.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DGTess

NPC recruitment encourages superficiality.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Disagree. Formal rush encourages it (and even that's debatable, depending on the school). Many chapters of NPC groups recruit in manners other than formal rush.

I think this is why the NPC is encouraging schools to move toward "no-frills" so the focus is the conversation. It's stupid really, because who actually chooses a chapter based on their decorations, skit, theme, or bulk-ordered matching outfits?

33girl and I are the biggest deferred recruitment cheerleaders on this board for many reasons, but among others, it allows for AUTHENTIC interaction between PNMs and actives.

You can argue that Superpopular Sigma is "forced" to be superficial because they are forced to make so many cuts after round 1 per RFM requirements. I disagree. If they want to take only the prettiest PNMs, that is their prerogative. If they want the PNMs they connect with the best, their challenge is to ask the right kinds of questions to get the right information from PNMs.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by BrandNewAdvisor

I wouldn't say that sorority recruitment is socialist.
XYZ is small and works really hard at preparing for recruitment, but they have a bad reputation and take only a few members.
ABC is huge and doesn't really prepare and coasts along on a good reputation and take quota plus.
Even though XYZ works hard and needs more members it's not going to get them.
Granted over time XYZ's work would eventually pay off but that would require them to survive until that happens.
ABC's lack of work would eventually have a negative effect but if they are popular and consistently attract the popular types it would be easy to just coast.
Sororities have a say on who to take and pnms have a say on who they want to join (if at all).

It's been said before somewhere on here that women think that sorority makes them and men think that they make their fraternity. The systems have to be different to work with this.

A strong sorority has the Walmart effect. Some small business will make it, lots will fail and it's much harder for them to start and grow. For the pnms, even if you don't love Walmart it can end up being the only place to shop and even if it's not, it's just easier to go there since it's where everyone else goes. There's always going to be a higher price at the smaller/less popular sorority.

Does your campus use RFM?

[thetygerlily]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Disagree. Formal rush encourages it (and even that's debatable, depending on the school). Many chapters of NPC groups recruit in manners other than formal rush. The system is what the women make it.

Agreed. The formal recruitment round robin approach makes sense for getting to know a lot of chapters in a short amount of time. Do you get to know their hopes and desires, what makes them tick? Maybe, maybe not. But often you don't do that for several weeks, months, or even years anyway. My school only had three sororities and it was plenty of time to for the mutual selection process to take place; larger systems may make that more difficult (more options, sometimes shorter rounds) but all things considered, it's a fairly practical way to do it. Otherwise recruitment could last all four years and we'd get nothing done!

Informal recruitment makes sense for getting to know the chapters on a more "typical" basis- doing things they normally would do together, outside of the formalities and chants and structure. I like that both are options, both appeal to certain audiences, both enable you to get to know aspects of sorority life. I'd be curious if anyone has any other ideas for a system that would be more efficient and productive?

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Since I never understood the "we all have to be equal" mentality, I've always advocated for an end to quota and total as artificial limits. It's been my experience that chapters will go through cycles, with some strong years and some weaker years.

Originally Posted by DGTess

But I don't get to make NPC rules.

Well, if you let things go unchecked, "weaker years" spiral into closure. Being significantly smaller is a BIG deal if your chapter has a house, because you won't be able to afford to keep it if you can't fill it. Plus, regardless of whether a chapter is housed or not, your budget suffers. You either charge astronomically higher dues for the chapter to have a similar experience to others on the campus or you have to cut back so your chapter can't do things other chapters can.

It's really quite simple why chapters would agree to total, quota, and RFM. Every NPC has struggling chapters somewhere and agreeing to policies that help weaker chapters help NPCs everywhere.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by thetygerlily

Agreed. The formal recruitment round robin approach makes sense for getting to know a lot of chapters in a short amount of time. Do you get to know their hopes and desires, what makes them tick? Maybe, maybe not. But often you don't do that for several weeks, months, or even years anyway. My school only had three sororities and it was plenty of time to for the mutual selection process to take place; larger systems may make that more difficult (more options, sometimes shorter rounds) but all things considered, it's a fairly practical way to do it. Otherwise recruitment could last all four years and we'd get nothing done!

Informal recruitment makes sense for getting to know the chapters on a more "typical" basis- doing things they normally would do together, outside of the formalities and chants and structure. I like that both are options, both appeal to certain audiences, both enable you to get to know aspects of sorority life. I'd be curious if anyone has any other ideas for a system that would be more efficient and productive?

Defer recruitment until spring. PNMs begin to sign up for recruitment the first day of fall semester. Allow chapters/Panhellenic to invite registered PNMs to philanthropy events, to watch Greek Week/Homecoming events, Panhellenic speakers/programs, etc. basically anything that wouldn't be weird to have non-members attend. Registered PNMs bring friends, friends register, they bring their friends. A semester of authentic interaction (and a semester to prove yourself academically on the college level) and then formal recruitment for efficiency.

[BrandNewAdvisor]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Does your campus use RFM?

On my campus of initiation they switched to it my junior year. When I joined my chapter they were at their lowest point and if girls were only invited to our pref they dropped and if they had two, suicided 99% of the time.

The campus I just started advising at does use it and has been for a while.

[SWTXBelle]

I don't think recruitment is any more superficial than a business interview. In both cases, your resume is in the hands of the prospective "employer", and an interview process is required. The same "superficial" abilities - to make intelligent conversation, to ask incisive questions, to demonstrate the ability to contribute to the org. - work for both. Come to that, physical appearance and charm come into play with both - you can decry that fact, but there it is.
At least in recruitment you get to meet more than just one or two members of the "business", and more time to "wow" them and be "wowed" yourself.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by thetygerlily

Fraternities generally are more of a free-for-all, less structured, visit who you want when you want. My husband went through at the same time as me and his recruitment was basically "hey, we played soccer together. Want a bid? Come to the house and we'll give you one." Granted, I think that was pushing things a bit and was likely much more casual than most, but it was a stark difference from what I went through.

This has been my observant experience with fraternity recruitment. I also believe that their more relaxed recruitment is related to the fact that most fraternities have a relatively easy process set in place for "blackballing" or booting guys out prior to initiation. So basically they are recruiting during the whole pledge term to determine who is worthy of membership. On many campuses, it is normal to have 40 pledges but only initiate 25. If that were to happen in NPC world, all kinds of red flags would be raised. We have to figure out who is worthy of membership in 3 or 4 nights of singing and dancing. Yes, NPC groups have standards procedures for releasing pledges who are problem-children, but if that process is used too much, it's an indication of deeper issues.

Don't get me wrong - I think what we are doing now is the best option. And violetpretty's note about NPC's advocating no-frills is a step in the right direction to take out any perceived superficiality and move toward selection based on values and actual human interaction / relationships.

Regarding deferred recruitment. I think it works well on some campuses, but there are others where it would become a breeding ground for dirty rushing, I'm afraid. The tent talk would be spread out over a whole semester, and PNMs would be influenced by men as well. I don't see how it would help the struggling chapter when PNMs have a whole semester to "fall in love" with the stronger groups. One of the goals of RFM is to manage PNM expectations and let them explore realistic options rather than spending extra time with chapters that they have no chance of joining. With deferred, they just get their hopes up over a longer period of time.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Defer recruitment until spring. PNMs begin to sign up for recruitment the first day of fall semester. Allow chapters/Panhellenic to invite registered PNMs to philanthropy events, to watch Greek Week/Homecoming events, Panhellenic speakers/programs, etc. basically anything that wouldn't be weird to have non-members attend. Registered PNMs bring friends, friends register, they bring their friends. A semester of authentic interaction (and a semester to prove yourself academically on the college level) and then formal recruitment for efficiency.

While I agree with the benefits thetygerlily states, there is a major problem with deferring Recruitment to spring on large Greek campuses, particularly for those with physical houses. The financial loss of just one semester's income from a new member class can be devastating. It wouldn't just be the loss of dues that pays for socials and such, but more importantly meals, staff salaries, house maintence costs, etc.

[thetygerlily]

Originally Posted by Zillini

there is a major problem with deferring Recruitment to spring on large Greek campuses

It can be a problem for small campuses too. I came from a system of deferred recruitment. Yes, it helps fit the casual atmosphere of the college. Yes, I was able to meet a couple of women from the chapter I wound up joining. Yes, I had time to wonder "should I go through recruitment?" and make a semi-educated decision. Yes, I had time to "find myself" (or at least start figuring it out) before going through recruitment.

With that being said, I really feel that deferred recruitment hurts the sororities at my alma matter. It's a small school- 1300 students, with 3 sororities. Total is at 50 but for the past 10+ years most chapters haven't broken 40, & hover around 30. Quota is usually 6-9. A quota of 6 means only 18 signed bid cards! Out of 350ish freshman! That's incredibly low.

Freshmen have time to get involved in other clubs & activities, get overwhelmed with studies, and make other friends. It's a 100% residential campus, so dorms are great fodder for friendships. That lends itself to freshmen not seeing the value in the Greek system, because they already have friends and clubs and activities and way too much schoolwork. It also gives them time to talk themselves- and their friends- OUT of going through recruitment. It's funny, being Greek on that campus is like being a member of any other club... except that you're sometimes frowned upon. Most people could care less, though, who is and isn't Greek.

Perhaps "standard" recruitment would make sense for smaller schools, who can spend more time getting to know each PNM during the parties- after all, if you're only voting/whatevering on 20-30 women, you get to know them all. You really do. Or, at least, we did.

I was a Rho Chi one year and we had the HARDEST time getting freshmen interested during first term. We would have events in the dorm lounges (common for our campus) like mani/pedi night, movie, game night, etc- we were lucky if 2 people showed up. I actually wound up dropping out of being a Rho Chi and we replaced me with someone who had been studying abroad first term. The sad thing is that we don't think any of the freshmen noticed that I was on the chapter side (as President instead of a disaffiliated Rho Chi) or that she hadn't been around first term. Perhaps it's just an apathetic issue with my school (also had relatively low school spirit in the sport realm). I don't know. But deferred recruitment certainly didn't feel like it was helping sustain the Greek system.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by jwright25

I don't see how it would help the struggling chapter when PNMs have a whole semester to "fall in love" with the stronger groups.

Or OUT of love. They get to see them warts & all, not just prettied up for rush. No group can have every member be totally perfect for an entire semester/year.

Also consider that there are women who get to college who say NWIH are they interested in sororities, but then get to know the members personally over a semester or so and reconsider. Not to mention there are still 1st gen college students out there who if they HAD to rush first semester, would have no clue what they were doing.

I agree with Zillini that if you have a huge physical plant to sustain, unless you do some sort of giant switcheroo as far as housing terms are concerned, you kind of have to do the first semester thing.

@thetygerlily...if freshmen talk themselves out of rushing, or think that it's unnecessary because they've found other activities...they probably would have been crappy members anyway. Stop worrying about the freshmen and reach out to the upperclassmen who've been around a while and feel like they're lacking something. Quota of 6 at a school that small is nothing to sneeze at...considering at one state school near here, their quota was less than that, and they have 13,000 students.