Capitalist vs. Socialistic

[naraht]

I heard once an interesting comparison between NIC Fraternity rush and NPC Sorority Rush.

The Fraternities rush capitalistically, the Sororities rush socialistically.

At most schools I've seen, the fraternities don't care at all (at least not officially) if one of the other fraternities don't manage to rush anyone in a given semester. And I've never seen any situation where fraternities put limits on their own rush to help keep another chapter alive.

OTOH, the sororities make sure that at least at the beginning that all of the sororities get the same number (or close) and only after everyone has gotten to that number is there any opportunity for additional recruitment.

Comments?

[Elephant Walk]

Not all guys rushes are the same way.

At Arkansas, ours is set up fairly similar to very strict girls rush. In fact, there is not too much difference between the rules besides guys drink alot more during the formal.

[Preston327]

Where I'm going it seems like naraht's description is pretty accurate, at least on the fraternity end. Although, one thing I've noticed when asking my friends in various orgs how their rush went is that they all gave out an identical number of bids. Don't know if that's coincidence or an IFC-mandated thing or what.

[Gusteau]

Interesting concept.

Although I think DePauw has a quota for fraternity recruitment. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm know that whatever school it is has a Delta Chi chapter.

ETA: It is DePauw : http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=102885

[DGTess]

Since I never understood the "we all have to be equal" mentality, I've always advocated for an end to quota and total as artificial limits. It's been my experience that chapters will go through cycles, with some strong years and some weaker years.

But I don't get to make NPC rules.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

But I don't get to make NPC rules.

**whew**

[thetygerlily]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Since I never understood the "we all have to be equal" mentality, I've always advocated for an end to quota and total as artificial limits. It's been my experience that chapters will go through cycles, with some strong years and some weaker years.

Yes, they will- and that happens regardless of quota or total. But if a chapter is going through a weaker time and there is no quota, the stronger chapters get more women and the weaker get less. Then the chapter doesn't get enough new members and after a period will have to close. You may not feel it as much at a larger university with quotas of 50, 75, or 100 women.

On my campus with a small Greek system of 3 sororities, this was felt very strongly. Total was 50 but average chapter size was 30 and quota was often around 9-10. One chapter got down to 6 members. If they didn't pull through with a strong recruitment, they were going to close the chapter. Another chapter had a rule that they couldn't be on a campus with two or less. They would have had to close, even though they were strong. The last chapter had a rule that they couldn't be the only one on campus. There goes the Greek system.

Because of quota and the sororities supporting each other as Panhellenic sisters, that small chapter pulled through and all three chapters are strong today. I was one of the new members of the 6 person sorority that tripled the membership size. I can't imagine the campus without sororities, nor my college or adult life without it. Is this an extreme example? Perhaps. But it was my experience.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Since I never understood the "we all have to be equal" mentality, I've always advocated for an end to quota and total as artificial limits. It's been my experience that chapters will go through cycles, with some strong years and some weaker years.

Originally Posted by DGTess

But I don't get to make NPC rules.

Well, if you let things go unchecked, "weaker years" spiral into closure. Being significantly smaller is a BIG deal if your chapter has a house, because you won't be able to afford to keep it if you can't fill it. Plus, regardless of whether a chapter is housed or not, your budget suffers. You either charge astronomically higher dues for the chapter to have a similar experience to others on the campus or you have to cut back so your chapter can't do things other chapters can.

It's really quite simple why chapters would agree to total, quota, and RFM. Every NPC has struggling chapters somewhere and agreeing to policies that help weaker chapters help NPCs everywhere.

[thetygerlily]

On a lighter note, the capitalist v. socialist comparison is amusing. And not that far off from what I've seen! I've always been amazed with the way sorority recruitment is SO formalized with full out schedules, people there to lead you through the process & walk you from door to door, and requirements on how many parties you can go to and whether or not you can cut.

Fraternities generally are more of a free-for-all, less structured, visit who you want when you want. My husband went through at the same time as me and his recruitment was basically "hey, we played soccer together. Want a bid? Come to the house and we'll give you one." Granted, I think that was pushing things a bit and was likely much more casual than most, but it was a stark difference from what I went through.

And even my school had a fairly casual recruitment compared to others. Now even moreso, they're doing a mix between formal recruitment and COB. Basically wander into whatever chapter room you want and talk to people. No singing, no themes, just hang out and get to know people. So I suppose that's closer to how I picture the men's... but still a bit more structured in that it all happens at the same time & same place.

[DrPhil]

Interesting and I hope my question as an outsider isn't inappropriate:

In you all's opinion (or based on evidence), which is more conducive to lifetime membership and involvement versus "I'm just here to have fun while at school...because we played soccer together" () and "I WAS an XYZ?"

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by naraht

I heard once an interesting comparison between NIC Fraternity rush and NPC Sorority Rush.

The Fraternities rush capitalistically, the Sororities rush socialistically.

At most schools I've seen, the fraternities don't care at all (at least not officially) if one of the other fraternities don't manage to rush anyone in a given semester. And I've never seen any situation where fraternities put limits on their own rush to help keep another chapter alive.

OTOH, the sororities make sure that at least at the beginning that all of the sororities get the same number (or close) and only after everyone has gotten to that number is there any opportunity for additional recruitment.

Comments?

I disagree with your last statement in that we don't make sure every group gets the same number, we make sure each group has the opportunity to take that number, they have to do the work (ex: showcase their chapter, sisterhood, and membership and mutually select women).

Part of the reason we rush the way we do is that though annoying at times, our practices and rules protect the health of the entire system, and therefore our chapter. It has been said many times that if one chapter is at the bottom or in danger of closing, and does, another chapter will take their place, and it could be ours.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Interesting and I hope my question as an outsider isn't inappropriate:

In you all's opinion (or based on evidence), which is more conducive to lifetime membership and involvement versus "I'm just here to have fun while at school...because we played soccer together" () and "I WAS an XYZ?"

I think some of that depends on where the alumna/us lives after they graduate (near campus, near an active school or greek association or club), their connections with other people, their experience while in school (on double secret probation, closed for risk management or low numbers), whether the membership in an international or national group is emphasized, and their personality.

[DrPhil]

Thanks.

I ask because some think that how you come into the organization is important because it ideally sets the tone for the education and overall experience as a member. For example, if your recruitment is structured and perceived as being based on set criteria and expectations, that may shape how you perceive membership in the chapter and the organization. If you think it's kind of willynilly and essentially a drinking party with Greek letters attached then you may treat it as such. [ETA: I don't think fraternities, in general, are drinking parties. That was just the example that I used.]

I know it isn't so cut and dry, so thanks for your answers.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by thetygerlily

Fraternities generally are more of a free-for-all, less structured, visit who you want when you want. My husband went through at the same time as me and his recruitment was basically "hey, we played soccer together. Want a bid? Come to the house and we'll give you one." Granted, I think that was pushing things a bit and was likely much more casual than most, but it was a stark difference from what I went through.

This has been my observant experience with fraternity recruitment. I also believe that their more relaxed recruitment is related to the fact that most fraternities have a relatively easy process set in place for "blackballing" or booting guys out prior to initiation. So basically they are recruiting during the whole pledge term to determine who is worthy of membership. On many campuses, it is normal to have 40 pledges but only initiate 25. If that were to happen in NPC world, all kinds of red flags would be raised. We have to figure out who is worthy of membership in 3 or 4 nights of singing and dancing. Yes, NPC groups have standards procedures for releasing pledges who are problem-children, but if that process is used too much, it's an indication of deeper issues.

Don't get me wrong - I think what we are doing now is the best option. And violetpretty's note about NPC's advocating no-frills is a step in the right direction to take out any perceived superficiality and move toward selection based on values and actual human interaction / relationships.

Regarding deferred recruitment. I think it works well on some campuses, but there are others where it would become a breeding ground for dirty rushing, I'm afraid. The tent talk would be spread out over a whole semester, and PNMs would be influenced by men as well. I don't see how it would help the struggling chapter when PNMs have a whole semester to "fall in love" with the stronger groups. One of the goals of RFM is to manage PNM expectations and let them explore realistic options rather than spending extra time with chapters that they have no chance of joining. With deferred, they just get their hopes up over a longer period of time.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by jwright25

I don't see how it would help the struggling chapter when PNMs have a whole semester to "fall in love" with the stronger groups.

Or OUT of love. They get to see them warts & all, not just prettied up for rush. No group can have every member be totally perfect for an entire semester/year.

Also consider that there are women who get to college who say NWIH are they interested in sororities, but then get to know the members personally over a semester or so and reconsider. Not to mention there are still 1st gen college students out there who if they HAD to rush first semester, would have no clue what they were doing.

I agree with Zillini that if you have a huge physical plant to sustain, unless you do some sort of giant switcheroo as far as housing terms are concerned, you kind of have to do the first semester thing.

@thetygerlily...if freshmen talk themselves out of rushing, or think that it's unnecessary because they've found other activities...they probably would have been crappy members anyway. Stop worrying about the freshmen and reach out to the upperclassmen who've been around a while and feel like they're lacking something. Quota of 6 at a school that small is nothing to sneeze at...considering at one state school near here, their quota was less than that, and they have 13,000 students.

[thetygerlily]

Originally Posted by 33girl

if freshmen talk themselves out of rushing, or think that it's unnecessary because they've found other activities...they probably would have been crappy members anyway. Stop worrying about the freshmen and reach out to the upperclassmen who've been around a while and feel like they're lacking something.

I disagree with the crappy members statement. I almost didn't go through because there was a large "you don't need that" mentality, and I hope I've not been a crappy member. Many women who do go through do so because one or two people talked them into it (myself included; if I hadn't met one particular person I might not have gone through). How much would change if recruitment happened first term? I honestly don't know. But I would be surprised if it had lower turnouts. As for reaching out to upperclassmen, we did. In my initiation class, 4 of 11 were sophomores (we were one of the super huge years... the following year was just 4). And COR during the other two terms usually resulted in 2-4 upperclassmen per year. Rushing as an upperclassmen had no ill effect on one's chances through formal or informal.

ETA: I wish I had kept a journal my freshman year. I'd love to look back on my actual thoughts at the time rather than several years later. I have one from sophomore on... but that's just not the same! I'm insanely jealous of people who can look back on their rush experiences and other events and see their in-the-moment thoughts. They should put "keep a journal" in the freshmen orientation booklets!