Private Pool Bans Minority Campers

[Penguin08]

Wow, I'm from the south and even I'm suprised by this...

[Kevlar281]

Do hate crime laws make that distinction?

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Do hate crime laws make that distinction?

It depends on the state - there's a wide variation among states, and some extend the term "hate crime" to deal with everything from face to sexual orientation. Some states generalize the hate crime law to include laws based on "bigotry" or "bias" (like CT for example).

The Anti-Defamation League site has a decent summary, although I wonder if the info is up to date: http://www.adl.org/learn/hate_crimes..._frameset.html

[LOVEkst~]

some people love the past, so why not?

[DrPhil]

33girl, your correction is extremely appropriate, thank you.

I agree with your second paragraph, too. The spin by the AP fits the tone of many of the articles and people's reactions to them. We know the things that get a rise and an emotional response from many people in America, among them are: race, racism allegations, and exaggerations/inaccurate statements of the facts.

[FSUZeta]

well, it broke my heart when a tv reporter interviewed one precious little boy who started crying(so did i) when he told what he had heard.

[Kevin]

I think the media's coverage of this is probably going to do more psychological harm to these kids than the private club's manager ever could.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think the media's coverage of this is probably going to do more psychological harm to these kids than the private club's manager ever could.

How so?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

How so?

I say it's because of the overwhelming emotion that anything race related receives in this country. Those kids are being interviewed by a ton of reputable and nonreputable news sources. Some of them have their faces all over the place, including those who were crying. They are going to receive different types of responses from people.

Some of those kids may remember the incident but I wager that they don't know much about this story or anything beyond the fact that they didn't get to swim that day. They may believe whatever angry adults tell them about the incident and its consequences (i.e. them being denied membership when they were never seeking membership). And, as with most kids who are around adults, they can sense the emotions that they are expected to feel and express as Blacks and Hispanics who were allegedly discriminated against by whites. This type of thing can sometimes become an "I'm angry...don't know why...but I am...because I'm supposed to be" situation.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I say it's because of the overwhelming emotion that anything race related receives in this country. Those kids are being interviewed by a ton of reputable and nonreputable news sources. Some of them have their faces all over the place, including those who were crying. They are going to receive different types of responses from people.

Some of those kids may remember the incident but I wager that they don't know much about this story or anything beyond the fact that they didn't get to swim that day. They may believe whatever angry adults tell them about the incident and its consequences (i.e. them being denied membership when they were never seeking membership). And, as with most kids who are around adults, they can sense the emotions that they are expected to feel and express as Blacks and Hispanics who were allegedly discriminated against by whites. This type of thing can sometimes become an "I'm angry...don't know why...but I am...because I'm supposed to be" situation.

I already figured that as much, however I am waiting to see what KEVIN'S response is.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I already figured that as much, however I am waiting to see what KEVIN'S response is.

Well, dredlock rasta, you should PM KEVIN if you're going to respond like that to anyone other than KEVIN. Nothing is stopping KEVIN from still responding.

[I.A.S.K.]

From the article I find that I do not believe the person who contracted with the day camp is racist or that the club as a business has any racist beliefs. The daycamp person who contracted with the club seems to have been black. So, if race was an issue they would have denied the request and not signed the contract. I do, however, believe that a significant amount of the membership are racist. Overcrowding doesnt cut it for me as an explination as they were aware of exactly how many children would be swimming there. They have a pool specifically for young children and no one reported that the children were ill-behaved so changing the "complexion or atomsphere" is not cutting it either. If it is a pool for young kids how could young kids change the atmosphere or complexion?
I dont think the club officials realized how racist some of the members were.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Right on, be that as it may, if they still believe in Santa Clause, why spoil it? Y'know?

When believing in Santa could get them hurt (physically or emotionally) it becomes necessary to tell them the truth.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I say it's because of the overwhelming emotion that anything race related receives in this country. Those kids are being interviewed by a ton of reputable and nonreputable news sources. Some of them have their faces all over the place, including those who were crying. They are going to receive different types of responses from people.

Some of those kids may remember the incident but I wager that they don't know much about this story or anything beyond the fact that they didn't get to swim that day. They may believe whatever angry adults tell them about the incident and its consequences (i.e. them being denied membership when they were never seeking membership). And, as with most kids who are around adults, they can sense the emotions that they are expected to feel and express as Blacks and Hispanics who were allegedly discriminated against by whites. This type of thing can sometimes become an "I'm angry...don't know why...but I am...because I'm supposed to be" situation.

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

And I just wanted to point out that I was born and raised in Philly and have also lived in the surrounding suburban areas (currently living in one of those suburbs now), so when I first heard about this story I was not at all surprised. While Philly is pretty diverse with a rather large Black and minority population (like most big cities), the surrounding suburban areas are full of private country clubs, golf clubs, and sports/swim clubs and most are predominantly full of old, white, and upper middle class to wealthy members. And the farther from Philly you travel, the more you are likely to encounter some form of racism, although more subtle than blatant these days. So this story sounded normal and familiar to me...sad to say. While things have improved over the years and continue to get better and better, we have a long way to go still in parts of PA. regarding racism...and classism for that matter.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

I addressed this in my other post when I stated that my first experience with racism was in elementary school. I kind of knew what I was experiencing back then and there were no adults there to prepare me for it or guide me through it. I was still a child using child logic and reasoning. And, with a bunch of kids involved with this story, I'd bet that some of them aren't too keen on what happened and will go with the flow of outrage and emotions. Those who overheard the comments and had more experience with the sense of feeling unwelcome would know. However, as with my experience, kids are still kids. That's why they need adults.

What I was mostly talking about in the post you quoted was the over the top news reports, interviews, and responses from adults that those kids will most likely be exposed to. Those kids don't need all of that.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

And I just wanted to point out that I was born and raised in Philly and have also lived in the surrounding suburban areas (currently living in one of those suburbs now), so when I first heard about this story I was not at all surprised. While Philly is pretty diverse with a rather large Black and minority population (like most big cities), the surrounding suburban areas are full of private country clubs, golf clubs, and sports/swim clubs and most are predominantly full of old, white, and upper middle class to wealthy members. And the farther from Philly you travel, the more you are likely to encounter some form of racism, although more subtle than blatant these days. So this story sounded normal and familiar to me...sad to say. While things have improved over the years and continue to get better and better, we have a long way to go still in parts of PA. regarding racism...and classism for that matter.

That is a very good point which you can fill in almost any big name city and use as your example.

Times and modes of information delivery may have changed, but some behaviors obviously haven't.

You can look at narratives from 100 years ago and of course find the most blatant forms of racism and how they shaped people then into who they are today.

I think part of the 'shock factor' comes from the idea that we tend to think that although we are 100 years removed from those times, we would have advanced socially from those thoughts and words and be more 'enlightened' in race relations. Not so as this incident shows. Some of us are still surprised when things like this happen.

For example, refer to the Jena incident but not all that happened afterwards but what touched it off in the first place: A tree.

Heck, look what just happened at the Holocaust museum and that shows you how an 80 something year old man still perpetuated the hate that he STILL retained after all of these years. he's not removed from the blatant hate that people felt towards minorities in his younger days. Those folks that were involved as well as those watching I am sure formed opinions based on that too. All it takes is one bad apple to ruin it for the rest of the bunch.

Moving right along.

What I have found...odd..is how I have heard some commentators state how in the world that we have a Black president and this is still going on? Like the election of Obama was supposed to change anything? Really?

People will still be people and some will still state the obvious of what's on their minds and get looked at for their obtuse point of view.

But, let's all remember, it's a 'free country' and we have to be mindful what happens when we exercise our 'freedom of speech'.