Private Pool Bans Minority Campers

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think the media's coverage of this is probably going to do more psychological harm to these kids than the private club's manager ever could.

How so?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

How so?

I say it's because of the overwhelming emotion that anything race related receives in this country. Those kids are being interviewed by a ton of reputable and nonreputable news sources. Some of them have their faces all over the place, including those who were crying. They are going to receive different types of responses from people.

Some of those kids may remember the incident but I wager that they don't know much about this story or anything beyond the fact that they didn't get to swim that day. They may believe whatever angry adults tell them about the incident and its consequences (i.e. them being denied membership when they were never seeking membership). And, as with most kids who are around adults, they can sense the emotions that they are expected to feel and express as Blacks and Hispanics who were allegedly discriminated against by whites. This type of thing can sometimes become an "I'm angry...don't know why...but I am...because I'm supposed to be" situation.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I say it's because of the overwhelming emotion that anything race related receives in this country. Those kids are being interviewed by a ton of reputable and nonreputable news sources. Some of them have their faces all over the place, including those who were crying. They are going to receive different types of responses from people.

Some of those kids may remember the incident but I wager that they don't know much about this story or anything beyond the fact that they didn't get to swim that day. They may believe whatever angry adults tell them about the incident and its consequences (i.e. them being denied membership when they were never seeking membership). And, as with most kids who are around adults, they can sense the emotions that they are expected to feel and express as Blacks and Hispanics who were allegedly discriminated against by whites. This type of thing can sometimes become an "I'm angry...don't know why...but I am...because I'm supposed to be" situation.

I already figured that as much, however I am waiting to see what KEVIN'S response is.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I already figured that as much, however I am waiting to see what KEVIN'S response is.

Well, dredlock rasta, you should PM KEVIN if you're going to respond like that to anyone other than KEVIN. Nothing is stopping KEVIN from still responding.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Well, dredlock rasta, you should PM KEVIN if you're going to respond like that to anyone other than KEVIN. Nothing is stopping KEVIN from still responding.

it's a free board I can do whatever I want.

Dont get pissy cuz you didn't like my response, precious.

You are cute when you are angry, you love me.

Moody self.

[I.A.S.K.]

From the article I find that I do not believe the person who contracted with the day camp is racist or that the club as a business has any racist beliefs. The daycamp person who contracted with the club seems to have been black. So, if race was an issue they would have denied the request and not signed the contract. I do, however, believe that a significant amount of the membership are racist. Overcrowding doesnt cut it for me as an explination as they were aware of exactly how many children would be swimming there. They have a pool specifically for young children and no one reported that the children were ill-behaved so changing the "complexion or atomsphere" is not cutting it either. If it is a pool for young kids how could young kids change the atmosphere or complexion?
I dont think the club officials realized how racist some of the members were.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Right on, be that as it may, if they still believe in Santa Clause, why spoil it? Y'know?

When believing in Santa could get them hurt (physically or emotionally) it becomes necessary to tell them the truth.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

From the article I find that I do not believe the person who contracted with the day camp is racist or that the club as a business has any racist beliefs. The daycamp person who contracted with the club seems to have been black. So, if race was an issue they would have denied the request and not signed the contract. I do, however, believe that a significant amount of the membership are racist. Overcrowding doesnt cut it for me as an explination as they were aware of exactly how many children would be swimming there. They have a pool specifically for young children and no one reported that the children were ill-behaved so changing the "complexion or atomsphere" is not cutting it either. If it is a pool for young kids how could young kids change the atmosphere or complexion?
I dont think the club officials realized how racist some of the members were.



.

I highly disagree. These club officials often DO realize how racist some of the members are.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I highly disagree. These club officials often DO realize how racist some of the members are.

And just how, exactly, do you know this? You seem to know a lot about what other people think/know. Especially when it comes to racism. And people you don't know.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

And just how, exactly, do you know this? You seem to know a lot about what other people think/know. Especially when it comes to racism. And people you don't know.

One thing some people apparently don't realize is that you have to use common sense when looking at a situation. If these club officials are working at clubs that have no black members, and every single time someone black tries to join they get turned down, these officials are going to realize that the club members are racist. It's not rocket science. I don't have to know them to know this.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

And just how, exactly, do you know this? You seem to know a lot about what other people think/know. Especially when it comes to racism. And people you don't know.

Well, its all in the inference. One might infer that because the club has no black members and a situation like this happens that the members are racist or have racially discriminatory beliefs. One might also infer that the club management knows its members very well and that management would recognize the general sentiment of the members and thus know that they are racist.

I disagree in that the person who contracted with the day camp did not realize the extent to which the members were racist. If the person did why would they contract with a minority day-camp? If you know your members do not like rap music why would you agree to let 50 Cent practice his music at your club? You wouldn't. To contract with a group of people who would upset your membership would be jeopardizing your business and making your members unhappy. And members should always be happy.


And for people who believe that private clubs should be allowed to discriminate based on race....thats a bunch of bull.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I say it's because of the overwhelming emotion that anything race related receives in this country. Those kids are being interviewed by a ton of reputable and nonreputable news sources. Some of them have their faces all over the place, including those who were crying. They are going to receive different types of responses from people.

Some of those kids may remember the incident but I wager that they don't know much about this story or anything beyond the fact that they didn't get to swim that day. They may believe whatever angry adults tell them about the incident and its consequences (i.e. them being denied membership when they were never seeking membership). And, as with most kids who are around adults, they can sense the emotions that they are expected to feel and express as Blacks and Hispanics who were allegedly discriminated against by whites. This type of thing can sometimes become an "I'm angry...don't know why...but I am...because I'm supposed to be" situation.

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

And I just wanted to point out that I was born and raised in Philly and have also lived in the surrounding suburban areas (currently living in one of those suburbs now), so when I first heard about this story I was not at all surprised. While Philly is pretty diverse with a rather large Black and minority population (like most big cities), the surrounding suburban areas are full of private country clubs, golf clubs, and sports/swim clubs and most are predominantly full of old, white, and upper middle class to wealthy members. And the farther from Philly you travel, the more you are likely to encounter some form of racism, although more subtle than blatant these days. So this story sounded normal and familiar to me...sad to say. While things have improved over the years and continue to get better and better, we have a long way to go still in parts of PA. regarding racism...and classism for that matter.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

I addressed this in my other post when I stated that my first experience with racism was in elementary school. I kind of knew what I was experiencing back then and there were no adults there to prepare me for it or guide me through it. I was still a child using child logic and reasoning. And, with a bunch of kids involved with this story, I'd bet that some of them aren't too keen on what happened and will go with the flow of outrage and emotions. Those who overheard the comments and had more experience with the sense of feeling unwelcome would know. However, as with my experience, kids are still kids. That's why they need adults.

What I was mostly talking about in the post you quoted was the over the top news reports, interviews, and responses from adults that those kids will most likely be exposed to. Those kids don't need all of that.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

And I just wanted to point out that I was born and raised in Philly and have also lived in the surrounding suburban areas (currently living in one of those suburbs now), so when I first heard about this story I was not at all surprised. While Philly is pretty diverse with a rather large Black and minority population (like most big cities), the surrounding suburban areas are full of private country clubs, golf clubs, and sports/swim clubs and most are predominantly full of old, white, and upper middle class to wealthy members. And the farther from Philly you travel, the more you are likely to encounter some form of racism, although more subtle than blatant these days. So this story sounded normal and familiar to me...sad to say. While things have improved over the years and continue to get better and better, we have a long way to go still in parts of PA. regarding racism...and classism for that matter.

That is a very good point which you can fill in almost any big name city and use as your example.

Times and modes of information delivery may have changed, but some behaviors obviously haven't.

You can look at narratives from 100 years ago and of course find the most blatant forms of racism and how they shaped people then into who they are today.

I think part of the 'shock factor' comes from the idea that we tend to think that although we are 100 years removed from those times, we would have advanced socially from those thoughts and words and be more 'enlightened' in race relations. Not so as this incident shows. Some of us are still surprised when things like this happen.

For example, refer to the Jena incident but not all that happened afterwards but what touched it off in the first place: A tree.

Heck, look what just happened at the Holocaust museum and that shows you how an 80 something year old man still perpetuated the hate that he STILL retained after all of these years. he's not removed from the blatant hate that people felt towards minorities in his younger days. Those folks that were involved as well as those watching I am sure formed opinions based on that too. All it takes is one bad apple to ruin it for the rest of the bunch.

Moving right along.

What I have found...odd..is how I have heard some commentators state how in the world that we have a Black president and this is still going on? Like the election of Obama was supposed to change anything? Really?

People will still be people and some will still state the obvious of what's on their minds and get looked at for their obtuse point of view.

But, let's all remember, it's a 'free country' and we have to be mindful what happens when we exercise our 'freedom of speech'.

[DaemonSeid]

Update: Swim Club to make arrangements to ask kids to come back to club. Some parents will refuse to send their kids back.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

Exactly. Children are much more perceptive than most folks give them credit for. For those of us who have experienced racism, we remember it with great clarity to this day, even though there were no reporters interviewing us about the incident and plastering our faces everywhere. (I, for instance, was first called the n-word in first grade. And I remember to this day how it made me feel and my response to it.) Let's not try to write off or minimize the impact of the experience of racism (whether perceived or actual) that this event will undoubtably have in some of these children's lives.