Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The general Roe rule was a trimester rule:

• First trimester -- a state cannot restrict a woman's right to an abortion
• Second trimester -- a state can regulate abortions procedure during the second trimester provided it does so in ways reasonably related to the mother'sl health
• Third trimester -- a state can choose to restrict or proscribe abortion as it sees fit (or when the fetus is viable) except that a state cannot prohibit abortion where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, to preserve the life or health of the mother.

Later cases have modified this some, but it's still probably the basic rule of thumb.

Thanks both of you.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I'm very pro-choice but 23 weeks?

This also bothered me and I was calculating how many months this was to see if I was imagining things.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I've heard of partial birth abortion but I alway assumed that meant 4 or 5 months.

I don't know why partial births are done because I don't know much about them. From what I do know, I don't agree with partial birth abortions unless done to save the woman's life (if that happens).

[KSig RC]

I AM SOCIETY, AND I ALLOW BODY-BAG BABIES!

[Jill1228]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'm not sure what you mean by "allow." This wouldn't be a story that is causing outrage and a case under investigation if society at large condones this. It is clearly condemned.

I'm pro-choice and I consider this murder. I am disgusted and I wager that the average pro-lifer and pro-choicer finds this disgusting and wants justice to be served.

Yeah, that! Some dumb f*ck needs their ass handed to them on a platter

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I AM SOCIETY, AND I ALLOW BODY-BAG BABIES!

can

not

laugh

at

this

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The general Roe rule was a trimester rule:

• First trimester -- a state cannot restrict a woman's right to an abortion
• Second trimester -- a state can regulate abortions procedure during the second trimester provided it does so in ways reasonably related to the mother's health
• Third trimester (or when the fetus is viable) -- a state can choose to restrict or proscribe abortion as it sees fit except that a state cannot prohibit abortion where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, to preserve the life or health of the mother.

Later cases have modified this some, but it's still probably the basic rule of thumb.

The trimester framework was thrown out in Planned Parenthood v. Casey. In that case, the Court retained the viability aspect of the test but made it something of a moving target. They said that prior to the point of viability, the woman has the right to make decisions regarding her own body [I paraphrase], after the point of viability, however, the state's interest in protecting life kicks in and the state can do whatever it deems necessary, even proscribing abortions altogether. The Court, of course, left us with an exception which probably eats the rule -- when the health of the mother is in question, the state's interest in protecting life yields to that. What this "health" interest is, no one really knows.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I AM SOCIETY, AND I ALLOW BODY-BAG BABIES!

Okay, okay, I read that and let my emotions lead my fingers. I'm thrilled to see so many pro-choice people also consider this murder. Frankly, the woman was more than halfway through her pregnancy (40 weeks). Here's an example from Parents.com. The caption says, "The end of this week is an important milestone: Your one-pounder would have a good chance of survival if born now--about 85 percent if given the right care. His body is well proportioned, although lacking in body fat, and the blood vessels in his lungs are developing to prepare for breathing. About 50 percent of "early preemies" experience complications ranging from eye problems to intracranial hemorrhage (spontaneous bleeding in the brain); the rate drops steadily from the 24th week onward." This child could definitely have lived, probably without health problems.

To the lawyers: I've been told that, in certain states, a woman can legally have an abortion up until the day before her due date, especially if the child is going to be a donor for a partial birth abortion. Is that true? While I consider myself pro-life, I really don't accept 100% of their literature without doubt.

[WinniBug]

This makes me sick...if the baby was delivered, why not ...ugh.... I just can't put it into words. Partial-birth abortion is horrible, but this is so much worse!

I'm 31 weeks pregnant, and at 23 weeks (beginning of December), I had already been carrying her for five months, I could feel her move, she had a name and everything....I just don't understand.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I'm thrilled to see so many pro-choice people also consider this murder.

I really hope you're not surprised.

If so, that is disturbing and may indicate that you have an extremist view of what it means to be pro-choice. You may also have a pessimistic view of humanity and this society.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by WinniBug

This makes me sick...if the baby was delivered, why not ...ugh.... I just can't put it into words. Partial-birth abortion is horrible, but this is so much worse!

I'm 31 weeks pregnant, and at 23 weeks (beginning of December), I had already been carrying her for five months, I could feel her move, she had a name and everything....I just don't understand.

I wish the weeks could be presented as months so I could avoid the math.

I have 2 friends who are about 31 weeks pregnant. Seeing their bodies change and the fact that their babies have names reinforces how I don't believe in abortion this far along except for extenuating circumstances.

Aside from extreme cases, if a woman knows she wants to have an abortion, she should have it ASAP. If she finds out she's pregnant a month or so in, she can still make up her mind and do hat she needs to do. I don't understand how people wait so many months in.

[WinniBug]

31 weeks - 1st week of the 8th month
23 weeks - 2nd week into 6th month

But...you don't actually conceive until about what's considered week 2.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by WinniBug

31 weeks - 1st week of the 8th month
23 weeks - 2nd week into 6th month

But...you don't actually conceive until about what's considered week 2.

Oh then they are more along the lines of 6 months.

[preciousjeni]

I'm having trouble understanding the uproar. What's the difference, in this specific case, between ending the baby's life while in the womb and ending the baby's life outside of the womb if the goal is accomplished?

[Thetagirl218]

I have a problem with this thread and that goes beyond the original horrific story.

This country has been divided along lines of Pro Life and Pro Choice since the Roe v. Wade decision so many years ago.

honeychile stated her opinion and she has been picked on ever since. We all have a right to believe what we believe and should be able to state that belief without being picked on.

[SWTXBelle]

This story does point out the slippery slope that is picking a single point at which life outside the womb is possible. Most of those I know who call themselves pro-choice draw the line at abortion after the child is viable outside the womb. That line keeps getting earlier and earlier.