Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion

[PM_Mama00]

I'm very pro-choice but 23 weeks? I've known babies to be born premature at those weeks and have survived. I've heard of partial birth abortion but I alway assumed that meant 4 or 5 months. (although a family friend gave birth at 5 months and that little girl is about 10 years old now)

But that's not what disgusts me about this story. Where was the doctor? Why was someone with no medical experience dealing with this?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I'm very pro-choice but 23 weeks?

This also bothered me and I was calculating how many months this was to see if I was imagining things.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I've heard of partial birth abortion but I alway assumed that meant 4 or 5 months.

I don't know why partial births are done because I don't know much about them. From what I do know, I don't agree with partial birth abortions unless done to save the woman's life (if that happens).

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I'm very pro-choice but 23 weeks? I've known babies to be born premature at those weeks and have survived. I've heard of partial birth abortion but I alway assumed that meant 4 or 5 months. (although a family friend gave birth at 5 months and that little girl is about 10 years old now)

But that's not what disgusts me about this story. Where was the doctor? Why was someone with no medical experience dealing with this?

I think we are getting a very skewed story. A 23 week fetus will NOT live without immediate medical treatment, and nearly all 23 week babies born prematurely without the aid of an attempted abortion will die regardless of medical treatment. Whether or not this is murder is VERY debatable. Why this woman was given a cervical dilator before the physician arrived is a necessary question to answer. As for the employee who thought it wise to dispose of the baby as described, a lack of education may be the answer.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Whether or not this is murder is VERY debatable.

That's kinda where I'm stuck. If it was an abortion and abortion is legal, then it's not murder to finish the abortion.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

That's kinda where I'm stuck. If it was an abortion and abortion is legal, then it's not murder to finish the abortion.

That's the same mindset I have - if a baby is viable at ? weeks and is wanted, there will be hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to keep that child alive. However, if that same baby isn't wanted, it's treated as biohazard material.

IMHO, it's two standards. This is either a child or not. There are measures taken to save a life or not. There shouldn't be an option of being wanted or not.

I had a friend whose wife delivered at 22 weeks, and the child is fine - now. They went through a year of hundreds of thousands of dollars for his care, and he became a March of Dimes poster boy. So, when I hear of a child being placed in a biohazard bag "coffin", please forgive me for shaking my head. I hope I never do understand that sort of logic.

[SWTXBelle]

I would think the test would be - was the baby stillborn (never took a breath, heart didn't beat) or was it born and then died?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by honeychile

That's the same mindset I have - if a baby is viable at ? weeks and is wanted, there will be hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to keep that child alive. However, if that same baby isn't wanted, it's treated as biohazard material.

IMHO, it's two standards. This is either a child or not. There are measures taken to save a life or not. There shouldn't be an option of being wanted or not.

I had a friend whose wife delivered at 22 weeks, and the child is fine - now. They went through a year of hundreds of thousands of dollars for his care, and he became a March of Dimes poster boy. So, when I hear of a child being placed in a biohazard bag "coffin", please forgive me for shaking my head. I hope I never do understand that sort of logic.

I have to doubt the 22 week number. That is the limit of our medical ability to save premature babies. I also have to mention that treating a premature baby is up to the parents. If the mother refuses treatment, the baby will not be resuscitated. Does that happen often? No, because those women want their babies. Is it wrong to refuse to give consent to treat a severely premature baby since the outcome is most often very poor? In my opinion it is not. If I had a premature baby at 22 weeks, after seeing what happens to these babies, I would choose to let the baby die. Sometimes what can be done is not the same as what should be done.

[ZTABullwinkle]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I have to doubt the 22 week number. That is the limit of our medical ability to save premature babies. I also have to mention that treating a premature baby is up to the parents. If the mother refuses treatment, the baby will not be resuscitated. Does that happen often? No, because those women want their babies. Is it wrong to refuse to give consent to treat a severely premature baby since the outcome is most often very poor? In my opinion it is not. If I had a premature baby at 22 weeks, after seeing what happens to these babies, I would choose to let the baby die. Sometimes what can be done is not the same as what should be done.

I worked in the NICU at our local children's hopsital. I can recall seeing babies born at 20 weeks who were eventually discharged from the hospital. They went through hell, as did their parents and caregivers, but they did leave.

Maybe I missed it, but did the mother who was having the abortion realize the baby was alive? Has she spoke anymore about this? Can you imagine how she is feeling after all of this?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ZTABullwinkle

I worked in the NICU at our local children's hopsital. I can recall seeing babies born at 20 weeks who were eventually discharged from the hospital. They went through hell, as did their parents and caregivers, but they did leave.

Maybe I missed it, but did the mother who was having the abortion realize the baby was alive? Has she spoke anymore about this? Can you imagine how she is feeling after all of this?

I'm sure you have, but they are in the minority of 20 weekers. And the majority have major deficits.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by ZTABullwinkle

Can you imagine how she is feeling after all of this?

If she didn't want the baby in the first place, I'd figure she'd be feeling mission accomplished. Granted, women who have abortions often have a lot of emotions the come up after the procedure, but I'd imagine that she feels the same as if she'd had the abortion. I still don't see the difference. Abort in utero = the baby is a few inches from birth.