government mandated slavery

[Kevin]

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by StargazerLily

I'm looking at the middle/high school kids. What do they get for doing their 50 hours of service? The website is vague on how the program would work. I interpreted it to mean that college students who did 100 hours would get the college money credit. Also, I'm unsure if it wants college students to do 100 per year to get the money, or if they have to graduate before they get the credit, etc etc. There's alot of questions unanswered. At a swift glance though - it sounds to me that only college students really benefit for it. I cant imagine many middle/high schoolers enjoying doing community service "just because." I had to grow up a little bit more before I truly enjoyed giving back to the community.

What about the 2 year draft? Tthere would be those who would find medical reasons on why they should be spared, and other baloney excuses to get out of serving in the military. Plus, the military already has a bunch of "voluntary" dirtbags as it is, why put the soldiers (who want to be there) lives in danger by having them HAVE to depend on some dirtbag kid who is forced to be there? I know the draft was normal way back when, but times have changed. People don't look at military service as a sense of duty and something youre "supposed" to do anymore....

I wasnt trying to start an argument or anything - just found the info to be interesting....and I seriously wonder how it's going to work and be effective. There's going to have to be an incentive for it.....

Those roads you like to drive on... Need repairs... A former military, especially construction, can quickly make that happen. But like you said, folks will find a way to get out of serving others.

Theoretically, military personnel are allowed to serve in the Peace Corps. If not called up to active duty. Maybe President Obama is trying bolster President Clinton's Americorps. Who knows what they are trying to do.

As for young middle school age children, the issue is about their poor self-esteem outcome affecting their ability to be personable. That is what SEVERAL educators have told me from all over. Middle school is the age to bolters their self-esteem/confidence and civics and duties. Research has shown that if middle school age children who have positive experience with serving the community in the smallest of ways, turn out to be well-adjusted and productive as they matriculate in high school and beyond.

Aren't you sick of hearing about kids doing a Columbine style killings?

I am not saying that community service is the sole process, because some of the young people need psychiatric care more than helping other people. But, for young people who do not act all kind of crazy but need support could benefit with a well thought out community service plan.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by StargazerLily

I'm looking at the middle/high school kids. What do they get for doing their 50 hours of service? I cant imagine many middle/high schoolers enjoying doing community service "just because." I had to grow up a little bit more before I truly enjoyed giving back to the community.

What about the 2 year draft?

Community Service builds character. Middle and High School students should have to do community service because it opens their eyes. It will help them appreciate what they do have. CS also builds a sense of community (that I feel most of our communities lack). I also wouldn't underestimate the young people of today. We're a bit more mature than people think. The problem with many people today (especially young people) is that some feel entitled to something for no reason. Why shouldn't you spend 50 hours a year (50 hours in 52 weeks? It's not much work, but it's extremely necessary. Maybe kids will put the darn remotes down and live literally instead of vicariously) helping your community? Why should you get something for doing what you should be doing already? I understand that incentives motivate people. You should have to serve 50 hours a week as a thank you to the tax payers who pay for your education and safety.

To whom much is given much is expected. <----Words every person should live by. In this case to whom much is given (not, if anything)much is expected.


As far as the 2 year service thing, I think it's good and bad. Horrible in a time of war because no person wants to be forced to serve in a war. I also wouldn't want to have to rely on these people. I do believe there is benefit to having to serve in the military. It means that all people get some form of basic training in self-defense and discipline. I think that this will also foster more loyalty to the country, and a better work force. I think the image of most Americans as spoiled consumers will hold true if nothing is done. I don't think every young person should be shipped off to the army. I think that we might all need to do 2 years in a reserve. I'm a firm believer in the idea that hard work does a person good. There a lot of issues that can be attacked by having a 2 year service minimum.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by StargazerLily

I'm looking at the middle/high school kids.

Middle and high schools in a number of states already require students to complete a certain number of community service hours in order to be allowed to graduate. Obama's suggested plan doesn't sound too far off from what's already occurring.

And I'm mad that in the little time I was trying to post, y'all blew up the thread.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Middle and high schools in a number of states already require students to complete a certain number of community service hours in order to be allowed to graduate. Obama's suggested plan doesn't sound too far off from what's already occurring.

My state does for high school students.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Middle and high schools in a number of states already require students to complete a certain number of community service hours in order to be allowed to graduate. Obama's suggested plan doesn't sound too far off from what's already occurring.

And I'm mad that in the little time I was trying to post, y'all blew up the thread.

I was required to do them in the state of FL. If you did a certain amount it provided you with a special cord at graduation. You also needed a certain amount to be considered for Bright Futures Scholarship (seeing as how almost EVERY instate kid I know has this, there are a LOT who did it!)

I also had to do them in middle school as well. Was it annoying? Yes. But I'll never forget my wonderful summer before my senior year where I spent over 300 hours at a working-class area Boys and Girls Club helping children 7-10 focus on improving their reading skills. Yes, I did it because I was "forced", but there was a lot of benefit in it for both myself and those kids. Would I claim the experience to be the equivalent of slavery...um no.

And I wouldn't mind doing some sort of mandatory basic training either. It would probably get rid of these 5 extra pounds I'm carrying around and provide me with a new and enlightening experience. It's not like I (or any of my recently graduated friends) have a real job right now anyway, what with this economy the way it is.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by StargazerLily

I'm looking at the middle/high school kids. What do they get for doing their 50 hours of service?

Look, I'm going to ignore the rest because I'm incredibly hung over and you don't deserve the kind of irate rant that would follow, but seriously, take another second and read your note above again.

Seriously - you have a problem with COMMUNITY SERVICE? Even if compulsory, the kids get to pick what they do - so it's not like they're forced to help X, Y or Z (where X/Y/Z are communities you find distasteful), they're allowed to clean dishes at the country club if they want. This isn't a bad thing, unless you're absolutely and irrevocably irrational.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Look, I'm going to ignore the rest because I'm incredibly hung over and you don't deserve the kind of irate rant that would follow, but seriously, take another second and read your note above again.

Seriously - you have a problem with COMMUNITY SERVICE? Even if compulsory, the kids get to pick what they do - so it's not like they're forced to help X, Y or Z (where X/Y/Z are communities you find distasteful), they're allowed to clean dishes at the country club if they want. This isn't a bad thing, unless you're absolutely and irrevocably irrational.

I think one could have a rational problem with any new federal program without a clearly defined purpose. Your point about washing dishes at the country club kind of points out how useless this could turn out to be. It might actually be destructive, displacing lower wage employees.

I don't have a problem with tying currently existing federal assistance for higher education to community service in areas of specific need. As far as middle school and high school, if a local board wanted to set it up, okay. Or if it's offered as sort of the old Presidential Physical Fitness Awards program in the area of community service, it's hard to see it doing any real harm or having any really big costs.

But it's not irrational to question exactly what and how.

[darling1]

middle/high school get the benefit of helping someone. the get the benefit of doing something that will positively impact their lives. they will get the benefit of looking outside of their situation to have a more open position on life. they also have the benefit of putting this service on their resumes, applications for colleges and share their experiences with kids behind them.

if young people can sit on the phone, focus on trivial things then they can serve.

college student will probably receive some financial benefit from serving. whether its a stipend or a discount on tuition. i would think that existing programs like americorps may receive additional funding to help as many people as possible.

i think your questions are legitimate. but my position is that you have the right to exert your viewpoint on these issues and you can wait and see what the obama administration has to offer. whether you agree with him or not, the one thing that can't be disputed is that he is intelligent and has a strong command of the issues like this one. also, as much as it was laughed at, he was a community organizer and comes with a specific knowledge about how to effectively operate programs that seek to serve the community.

Originally Posted by StargazerLily

I'm looking at the middle/high school kids. What do they get for doing their 50 hours of service? The website is vague on how the program would work. I interpreted it to mean that college students who did 100 hours would get the college money credit. Also, I'm unsure if it wants college students to do 100 per year to get the money, or if they have to graduate before they get the credit, etc etc. There's alot of questions unanswered. At a swift glance though - it sounds to me that only college students really benefit for it. I cant imagine many middle/high schoolers enjoying doing community service "just because." I had to grow up a little bit more before I truly enjoyed giving back to the community.

What about the 2 year draft? Tthere would be those who would find medical reasons on why they should be spared, and other baloney excuses to get out of serving in the military. Plus, the military already has a bunch of "voluntary" dirtbags as it is, why put the soldiers (who want to be there) lives in danger by having them HAVE to depend on some dirtbag kid who is forced to be there? I know the draft was normal way back when, but times have changed. People don't look at military service as a sense of duty and something youre "supposed" to do anymore....

I wasnt trying to start an argument or anything - just found the info to be interesting....and I seriously wonder how it's going to work and be effective. There's going to have to be an incentive for it.....

[kddani]

Originally Posted by StargazerLily

I know, I know. Flame the "bitter republican."

Nah, you'll just get flamed for cutting and pasting from myspace, posting stuff from nut-job extremists and not even attempting to find a credible source to educate yourself with. Repubs and Dems alike get flamed for that sort of thing.

Before you post something so inflammatory, at least make some sort of effort to actually educate yourself on the subject.

[KSigkid]

The Universal Draft will never pass. Hasn't Rangel tried to pass it through a few times before?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

The Universal Draft will never pass. Hasn't Rangel tried to pass it through a few times before?

Yes, he's tried passing that legislation through several times. I guess he was attempting to "spread that wealth around"--like many other countries do already...

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

The Universal Draft will never pass. Hasn't Rangel tried to pass it through a few times before?

Yes, actually, the first time Rangel proposed it, in 2003, it was a reaction to the war in Iraq. Rangel had made a statement at one point that if more lawmakers had sons or daughters in the military and thus were likely to have children called up to serve, it might have changed their view on the war. So he was trying to make a "point" as it were, with the legislation (which garnered almost no cosponsors and only received 2 votes -- again, Rangel always knew it wouldn't pass).

Then he reintroduced it in 2006, it didn't get any cosponsors and I don't even think it went to committee.

And then he reintroduced it in 2007, I think it garnered 2 whole cosponsors this time and was sent to committee, where it was sent to subcommittee, where it was never taken up, so languished and died.

[nittanyalum]

BTW, Chaos, that little boy in your siggy link that gets all choked up, I just wanna hug him.

[Kevlar281]

I would gladly serve if called upon.