Indiana Recruitment

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SoProud2BeAnAlphaXi

With due respect to my good Sister, I need to say as a seasoned RFM specialist that I have been party to many, MANY conversations and strategy sessions with IU's (equally seasoned) RFM specialist as she has worked to make the best of this exceptionally challenging situation. She has spent probably an entire week of her life -- volunteer time of course -- not just handling the numbers but explaining in various ways to the administration, and to the chapters on campus and their inter/national counterparts (the latter of which might also be referred to as "the choir") why the current setup is far less than ideal and should be changed in order to meet the demand for the sorority experience at IU. She has been beating this drum and advocating change for years, not just this year when it became "news". Meanwhile, there are NPC groups who will tell you their chapter's health at Indiana has been significantly improved under her RFM guidance, working the numbers as best she could.

It is unfair, at best, to blame someone who has taken on the thankless task of trying to manage numbers for a community where chapters simply won't consider taking nearly half the women going through recruitment (but all with different numbers, which sometimes change after recruitment's already begun). I know the whole situation is very frustrating, but let's not attribute fault where it does not belong.

Thank you for that clarification of the RFM part of this puzzle. I think it is very important to point out that NPC (which RFM specialists represent) have only an advisory role on a campus. They have no power to make these chapters agree to massive overhaul of the system. I honestly don't know how you would decide on release numbers in this situation. Blaming the people who are trying to make a difference is not the way to go, obviously, but so many people don't understand who is to blame.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by SoProud2BeAnAlphaXi

She has spent probably an entire week of her life -- volunteer time of course -- not just handling the numbers but explaining in various ways to the administration, and to the chapters on campus and their inter/national counterparts (the latter of which might also be referred to as "the choir") why the current setup is far less than ideal and should be changed in order to meet the demand for the sorority experience at IU. She has been beating this drum and advocating change for years, not just this year when it became "news". Meanwhile, there are NPC groups who will tell you their chapter's health at Indiana has been significantly improved under her RFM guidance, working the numbers as best she could.

Thanks for the information. Are you saying she's trying to get them to make bigger cuts and they won't? Because if that's the case, then it certainly isn't the RFM specialist's fault. And I wouldn't even pretend to say the role of RFM Specialist at a school like IU is an easy task. The fact that it is unpaid is almost bizarre.

While I can appreciate that the housing and limited beds situation is frustrating, it would appear to me that there should be a lot more girls heartbroken at day 2 and not at bid-matching. Maybe they'd have had another alternative, maybe they wouldn't, but at least they wouldn't have been strung along.

[IndianaSigKap]

^^^ I think you're right about the majority. While there are women who are blissfully unaware throughout recruitment, there are girls who go into IU recruitment pretty aware. If even 100 girls took the quota into consideration, they might rank differently. A hundred women here to there could make quite a difference.

A friend's niece who was well aware of the IU system and its flaws, took a different strategy when ranking and she did very well. She had a full party schedule each time and did get a bid. She made sure to keep "reasonable" chapters on her lists and she did look at the size of the chapter. She assumed that larger chapters took larger pledge classes and therefore she might stand a better chance to get in.

[IUgreekmom]

Thank goodness I saw the statistics while my daughter was going through rush this year. Since she was out of state, did not know anyone and my sorority(another big ten school) cut her right away we thought through her options after 14 party. Sad how some sororities do not value legacies. I told her to look at where she fit in and do not listen to others on who is the most popular, etc. Luckily she kept an open mind and had 3 parties for preference and said she would be very happy with any one of them. However, she was very nervous when she saw how many girls were at each preference party and knew that each house had multiple parties that round. She did receive a bid and is very happy.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by IUgreekmom

Sad how some sororities do not value legacies. I told her to look at where she fit in and do not listen to others on who is the most popular, etc.

There may be more legacies than spots. (This is true at lots of schools.)

Or she may have followed your advice above.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I have NO inside IU information, just a lot of graduate level work in time-series forecasting and other statistical methods.

First of all, I'm glad to hear they actually do have an RFM specialist. I wasn't even sure if that was the case. When I think about how RFM works, though, I can see why it breaks down when different chapters have differently-sized pledge classes, and further, can change that size from year-to-year.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I have NO inside IU information, just a lot of graduate level work in time-series forecasting and other statistical methods.

First of all, I'm glad to hear they actually do have an RFM specialist. I wasn't even sure if that was the case. When I think about how RFM works, though, I can see why it breaks down when different chapters have differently-sized pledge classes, and further, can change that size from year-to-year.

^^^ All good points. And I would like to add, that chapters may have to make cuts in December before they leave. They may not know who will come back from break for recruitment. Girls drop out and some don't make grades. That would be tricky to figure in as well.

[33girl]

I don't think this is an RFM issue. As several people have said, you could tell rushees the statistics over and over and over and many of them will STILL think they're that special snowflake who will beat the odds. A good attitude in some cases, but not in this one.

[IUHoosiergirl88]

Honestly, IU is the perfect storm. I can attest to that, I dropped out of recruitment my first time through because I didn't like my options. I ended up joining a then (no longer) struggling chapter because there really wasn't another choice. My story worked out well, but a lot do not.

You have a combination of a large number of PNMs, a relatively non-changing number of beds, a very 'live-in' set culture, historic chapters, and an extremely set in 'tier' culture.

Unlike at many schools, where one good year can send you to the top and one bad year can send you to the bottom, IU tends to be the same in-demand chapters year after year. In the 5 years I've been exposed to the Greek system, a select few chapters have changed social positions. I personally believe that this, not necessarily bed quota, is the major problem for IU

[AXOrushadvisor]

Is there a reason why they can not move that 20 party to January? Seems like that would be the path of least resistance. They would have their grades, know who is coming back and could take larger cuts. Is that another instance of "we have always done it this way"?

[IUHoosiergirl88]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Is there a reason why they can not move that 20 party to January? Seems like that would be the path of least resistance. They would have their grades, know who is coming back and could take larger cuts. Is that another instance of "we have always done it this way"?

When I was a freshman, 20 party USED to be right around Halloween, so it has been moved in the past. We'd discussed moving 20 party as an alternative option to switching the party schedule my junior year (went from 19-8-6-3 to 20-14-8-3), but the general consensus was that it would be too grueling of a schedule. You'd turn what's already a short winter break, since most chapters come back around Jan 2-3, into an even shorter one. Chapter members already drop like flies throughout the week due to a lack of sleep and germs getting passed around, add 2 more recruitment days and it'd be utter chaos.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Is there a reason why they can not move that 20 party to January? Seems like that would be the path of least resistance. They would have their grades, know who is coming back and could take larger cuts. Is that another instance of "we have always done it this way"?

It could be done, but not without some major changes. Most women have to come return either Jan 2 or 3 depending on the calendar. There will be an additional chapter for open house round next year. If every round were to be done after break, I think it would have to look something like this:

Tuesday report to campus
Wednesday 21 party day 1
Thursday 21 party day 2
*Friday 14 party day 1
Saturday 14 party day 2
Sunday 8 party *(or give the chapters a day off between 21 and 14 to move 8 to the following Saturday, pref on Sunday and bid day on Monday)

Then the following week start classes
Saturday Preference
Sunday Bid Day

It would have to stretch out over two weeks, I can't imagine being on the sorority side of it and getting it all in during one week with the actual events, decorating, cleaning up, MS, etc.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

It could be done, but not without some major changes. Most women have to come return either Jan 2 or 3 depending on the calendar. There will be an additional chapter for open house round next year. If every round were to be done after break, I think it would have to look something like this:

Tuesday report to campus
Wednesday 21 party day 1
Thursday 21 party day 2
*Friday 14 party day 1
Saturday 14 party day 2
Sunday 8 party *(or give the chapters a day off between 21 and 14 to move 8 to the following Saturday, pref on Sunday and bid day on Monday)

Then the following week start classes
Saturday Preference
Sunday Bid Day

It would have to stretch out over two weeks, I can't imagine being on the sorority side of it and getting it all in during one week with the actual events, decorating, cleaning up, MS, etc.

I know this is probably heresy to even suggest - but a lot of this mess could also be helped by moving formal recruitment to August?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I know this is probably heresy to even suggest - but a lot of this mess could also be helped by moving formal recruitment to August?

Believe it or not, I (who think pre-freshman rush is evil) was going to suggest it too. Only because on this campus, the current schedule seems to breed a larger than usual false sense of security.

I'm guessing the current split schedule also does a lot of its own weeding out (grades, women who transfer, women who just decide it's not for them) and the thought of losing that frightens chapter members.

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

It could be done, but not without some major changes. Most women have to come return either Jan 2 or 3 depending on the calendar. There will be an additional chapter for open house round next year. If every round were to be done after break, I think it would have to look something like this:

Tuesday report to campus
Wednesday 21 party day 1
Thursday 21 party day 2
*Friday 14 party day 1
Saturday 14 party day 2
Sunday 8 party *(or give the chapters a day off between 21 and 14 to move 8 to the following Saturday, pref on Sunday and bid day on Monday)

Then the following week start classes
Saturday Preference
Sunday Bid Day

It would have to stretch out over two weeks, I can't imagine being on the sorority side of it and getting it all in during one week with the actual events, decorating, cleaning up, MS, etc.

I cannot imagine this schedule without stretching it out to two weeks. If for no other reason than this old-fart advisor needs sleep.

I know TPA ended up doing formal recruitment, however originally they hadn't planned to; I would assume that the new group next year (ASA I think?) would have the option to stay in formal recruitment or drop out after open house. If they did drop out, it makes me wonder if women would drop out of recruitment if they didn't like thier remaining choices to give the new group a shot.