Indiana Recruitment

[DeltaBetaBaby]

How many fraternities are there at IU, and what are their sizes like? Are they all over the board?

[Mevara]

So how does Theta Phi Alpha determine their quota since they don't have a house and everyone else uses beds?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Mevara

So how does Theta Phi Alpha determine their quota since they don't have a house and everyone else uses beds?

They have only been a chapter for a short time. I would guess they're still working on an ultimate formula for that.

[CookiesNCream]

I think many girls who go through recruitment screw themselves over by ranking "lower" tier houses at the bottom of their list, or dropping out of recruitment when things don't go their way. You paid 60 dollars, at least finish up the process. If you really don't like the chapter you end up at, you're not obligated to accept a bid.

I also don't believe in dropping out of recruitment as a freshman because you were unhappy with your list and going through again as a sophomore in hopes of getting a "better" house. I know an insurmountable number of sophomores who went/have gone through recruitment twice, only to see that the houses they get back are similar if not identical to the ones they got the first time around. (Plus sophomores always get much heavier cuts). Yes, the system sucks but it's not just NPC/IU/the individual chapters... it's also in large part due to failure of PNMs to keep an open mind.

TPA did very well this past recruitment for being an unhoused chapter competing with 19 other housed chapters, so good for them. Hopefully their success this recruitment will take away the negative stigma associated with a non-housed chapter and more girls will be willing to join other non-housed chapters in the coming years.

[AXOrushadvisor]

OK so I was thinking "lower tier" = unhoused. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Can some one explain how they do release figures? Is all determined on the number of beds? What if you want more women then you have beds and what happens if you have an unusually small senior class? Is there a reason why Pan is reluctant to change other then it has always been done that way?

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

OK so I was thinking "lower tier" = unhoused. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Can some one explain how they do release figures? Is all determined on the number of beds? What if you want more women then you have beds and what happens if you have an unusually small senior class? Is there a reason why Pan is reluctant to change other then it has always been done that way?

Originally Posted by CookiesNCream

I think many girls who go through recruitment screw themselves over by ranking "lower" tier houses at the bottom of their list, or dropping out of recruitment when things don't go their way. You paid 60 dollars, at least finish up the process. If you really don't like the chapter you end up at, you're not obligated to accept a bid.

As a follow up to AXOrushadvisor's question, are the "normal" (or as normal as can be since this is IU) release figures used at all? How are invites to the next round tied into how a PNM ranks the chapters?

After the 20 round, does a PNM (pre) “accept” her invites to the next round by ranking her top 14 chapters #1 and the next 6 chapters 2 through 7? In this scenario, she could – in theory – still have a full schedule during the process regardless of *where* she ranks the so called “lower tier” chapters. Even after the so called “top tier” chapters “drop” her because of RFM (I think that is what the release figures thing is called).

Or after the 20 party round, is it possible for the PNM to receive an invite to say all 20 chapters *then* she picks the 14 chapters? In this scenario, I would suspect she would be “dropping” many or the so called “lower tier” chapters throughout the process in hopes for a spot in a so called “top tier” chapter. Then at some late date, she gets dropped since the so called "top tier" chapters were not likely to extend her a bid in the first place.

In this is the case, I can see why she would be upset because she was the one that got to drop the chapters through most of the process. Or at least this is what she feels.

Does that make sense? Not sure if I'm saying it right and I may be off base, but that sounds like part of the issue at IU. That many of the PNMs are still attending the so called "top tier" chapters parties early on, when there is little likelihood they will get invited to the preference round parties, much less receive a bid.

I guess it comes down to this. And I know this is the million dollar question, but how do so many PNMs attend 3 preference parties and not get a bid?

From what has been discussed regarding RFM (I hope that is the right letters), the so called “top tier” chapters have to limit the number of PNMs even more because of their excellent return rates. I would guess that the so called “top tier” chapters at IU have very good return rates as well. So why aren’t those “top tier” chapters cutting PNMs right off the bat?

With limited spaces (bed quota) I could see PNMs dropped *before* the preference parties. But to have so many attend three preference parties and not get a bid at all seems like something is very wrong with the IU system.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by TSteven

With limited spaces (bed quota) I could see PNMs dropped *before* the preference parties. But to have so many attend three preference parties and not get a bid at all seems like something is very wrong with the IU system.

This x 100000000000000000000000000

There is no way a large number of women should attend three pref parties, rank them all, and end up with nothing. Now maybe all the women aren't ranking all of them, but I would guess many/most of them are.

[DubaiSis]

The problem is girl goes to 20 parties, ranks the 4 traditionally weakest chapters as her bottom 4. She gets invited back to 16 parties (I can't remember how the days break down so I'll make up the numbers) and all 4 of the "bottom" houses are off her list. Then at 8 party day she gets back all 8 of the strongest. For preference she gets back 3 of the most competitive chapters on campus and is on every one of their 2nd bid list. At any other school she would be a quota addition, but here, after having a stellar rush, she ends up with zero.

Or, she gets back 16 parties after day one but only gets 3 back day 2. If she'd kept 1 or more of those lower chapters, she might have 4 or 5 chapters to visit again instead of just 3. If I were advising a girl going through, I'd tell her to pick her top 3 and the 3 she'd accept if worse came to worst, and fill in with the others. But this would require a girl to sit and really think, does she like this house better because of a perceived status that she wants to join or does she really seriously see herself as fitting in with this group. If there are some "they're out of my league" chapters, a girl would be wise to rank them lower right from the start. But this is unicorns pooping rainbows stuff. 18 year old girls are not going to be this practical.

And if I understand this correctly, before rush each chapter says how many girls they want to pledge. The computer tells them how many girls they can invite back after each round. So the chapter that can only pledge 25 girls this year (due to awesome retention, smaller house or whatever) is inviting back a wildly different number of girls than the chapter that can take 60, because they allow some live-outs or they don't have a chapter house. And because of that, you can't look at the IU numbers and tell how the various chapters did. The numbers don't tell the story.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

The computer tells them how many girls they can invite back after each round. So the chapter that can only pledge 25 girls this year (due to awesome retention, smaller house or whatever) is inviting back a wildly different number of girls than the chapter that can take 60, because they allow some live-outs or they don't have a chapter house. And because of that, you can't look at the IU numbers and tell how the various chapters did. The numbers don't tell the story.

I'm also really unclear on how the computer picks that number, and/or whether there is any enforcement of sticking to that number.

In RFM, the invite number is a function of projected quota and recruiting strength. So, you could use the same principle at IU, where the invite number is a function of open beds and recruiting strength. I don't know if they are doing that.

Of course, even if they did, it wouldn't fix the problem that # PNM's > # of bids, but you would at least see women getting dropped from the process sooner, which may actually be an improvement over going through the whole thing and THEN not getting a bid. A small improvement, sure, but if you get no pref invites, well heck, at least you have time to get out of Bloomington before bid day.

[AXOrushadvisor]

I would love to see some stats but I'm thinking they keep them closely guarded. What you need to see is how many women are being placed. The next stat I would like to look at is how many are fully participating and not being placed. Again, for me that is the single biggest issue that a girl can go to 3 preference parties and walk away with nothing. My thought is if you liked her enough to invite to preference couldn't you see her as a sister?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I would love to see some stats but I'm thinking they keep them closely guarded.

One of the national officers who posts here said they (IU they) do use RFM, but she didn't get very specific about it.

[AXOrushadvisor]

http://www.chaptertools.net/site_fil...1317750124.pdf

This sort of gives you a small look at how they are doing quota. They give you some nuggets of information.

[DubaiSis]

The only nugget I found was they have to advise Panhel of their quota the week before 20 party, which is in December.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

How many fraternities are there at IU, and what are their sizes like? Are they all over the board?

Hopefully IUHoosierGirl88 can come back soon and give more current insight to this question. But there are 5 fraternities on Third Street and 1 about a block away. I am sure each of these chapters has over 120 members, maybe even closer to 150. Then there are 13 or 14 chapter houses on Jordan. There are quite a few unhoused chapters/colonies listed on the IFC website, but it doesn't look like it's been updated in ages. There are two "underground" fraternities too who are relatively strong but aren't recognized by IU because of disciplinary reason.

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

The problem is girl goes to 20 parties, ranks the 4 traditionally weakest chapters as her bottom 4. She gets invited back to 16 parties (I can't remember how the days break down so I'll make up the numbers) and all 4 of the "bottom" houses are off her list. Then at 8 party day she gets back all 8 of the strongest. For preference she gets back 3 of the most competitive chapters on campus and is on every one of their 2nd bid list. At any other school she would be a quota addition, but here, after having a stellar rush, she ends up with zero..

Yes! This exactly. For some reason, chapters don't cut enough after 20 party. It could be because no one knows how grades are going to be or who's going to come back because of the weather, etc. But many times, girls do put the lesser popular chapters as their bottom 6. They get their top 13 or 14 back. The more popular chapters make their heavy cuts and then women find themselves with very few chapters left. If I had a dollar for every time this happens....

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I would love to see some stats but I'm thinking they keep them closely guarded. What you need to see is how many women are being placed. The next stat I would like to look at is how many are fully participating and not being placed. Again, for me that is the single biggest issue that a girl can go to 3 preference parties and walk away with nothing. My thought is if you liked her enough to invite to preference couldn't you see her as a sister?

If Susie Rushee is going back to three Third Street chapters who have the smaller chapter houses. The quotas could be 35, 33, 40. These chapters are highly sought after and very few women are going to pass up the chance to attend these prefs. These chapters are strong recruiters, very polished with gorgeous houses and great reputations. They will invite back 105, 99, 120 back to preference. Yes, they may really like Susie Rushee and she is one of their top 150 women out of 1600, but it is possible for her to be #104, #86, #112 on second bid lists of all three chapters, which sucks because she ends up with no bid. However, she may have been #55 on the first list of a chapter who bids 56 women routinely, but she ranked them 15th on her list after 20 party. Again, if I had a dollar...

[carnation]

I just found out that my husband's cousin is probably going to IU this fall. Her mom asked me if I thought she should rush since there are about 5000 Greeks in this family. I can't encourage her after all the heartbreak I've read and heard about.

I hope she chooses one of the other schools. Bed rush is sadistic. Yeah, we had it at Arkansas and it was awful but this is on a much larger scale.