The Black Elite

[mccoyred]

Cosby is from the 'hood...North Philly, my hometown.

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
Maybe Bill is listed as a "have-not" because he ACQUIRED his wealth. He was not BORN wealthy. So he would not be in the same league as those whose wealth has been in families for 2, 3 and 4 generations...

He WAS NOT born with a SILVER SPOON in his mouth...

If I am not correct, someone, please correct me...

NO, I have not read the book...

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MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

[Discogoddess]

My impression of the book, and others like it (check out E. Franklin Frazier's much earlier, more academic critical piece, Black Bourgeoisie ), is that one's heritage (meaning, who your parents, grandparents and great-grandparents were/are), where you went to summer camp, school, what organizations you joined, etc., were more important than actual money you possessed. I view this like I view European royals, who are oftentimes broke, but are still considered elite because of their lineage. Thus, people like Bill Cosby and others who didn't come from these kind of families will never be considered true elites, by those diehards. Others in these circles may accept them, because of their ties to black greek and social orgs. and/or commitment to black causes and institutions (like black colleges).

I really don't get upset by this, because in my view, it is human nature to self-segregate on the basis of many things-race, class (caste system in India), profession (the guilds of Europe, the secret societies of Africa, Masonry at its inception, etc.), interest-on and on. Why would blacks in this country be any different, even if they don't hold seats at the real table of power? This notion that we should always be united because of our skin color is a newer one, certainly not exhibited with any consistency in our mother continent, or anywhere else in the world.

Then there are those of us whose parents put themselves through school, (or went through on the backs of some steel mill, car factory, shoe-shining, "washing white folks floors", stockyard-working mamas and daddies), sent us to great schools and provided good homes, put us in orgs. like Jack and Jill, but whose heritage doesn't qualify for elite status. To continue the European class system analogy, I guess we're the "merchant class," (for those of you who remember that unit of Western European history!). But because our foreparents were sharecroppers, washerwomen, porters and the like, we'll never be quite there, no matter how much we acquire or what orgs. we join. Oh darn!!!!!

I got the overall feeling that while the author can claim significant black elite heritage, it's not quite enough to be considered such by all those in that crowd. Even his Boule membership doesn't do the trick. And he is really upset by that.

Interesting...

[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited December 05, 2000).]

[PositivelyAKA]

ha ha, that's funny cause i didn't get the impression that the brother was bitter about not being completely obsorbed into the elite system, rather to me it seemed he thought it to be just simply the way he grew up and he was trying to share it with those of us on the "outside" so to speak. it didn't seem to me that he was all that interested in being associated with that lifestlye, since he basically went the opposite of his peers by attending a predominately white university and even marrying a non greek. today although some may still look at lineage, i believe the amount of wealth and individual class, college degree, organizations etc. that a person has can get you in many of these circles (if you desire). I mean if Bill and Camille Cosby and she's tight are not elite enough for ya then i don't know what is folks need to stop trippin

[TempleAlum1993]

I read this book and I felt that it was a very interesting read. I consider myself pretty well read and I picked up a few new facts .

I think that the author is "looking in" at this "Elite Society" rather than describing what its actually like to be a part of it. On a side note, I think that his book "Member of the Club" was much better.

I know folks that belong to most of the organizations mentioned in the book and they are just "regular" people to me. Unfortunately, the manner in which the book was edited seems to slant towards the "snobbiness" (perceived or real) by people.

I don't think that all of the people are "emulating white people". Its a matter of how you are raised and what you have experienced. I know folks that "have old money" and are as down to earth as you can be. AND.....I know some folks who are , well aren't monied and they are as snobby as you can get (Remember Regine from Living Single?)

I guess I'm just saying what Ms. Discogoddess already pointed out. Black folks are not a monolithic group and most groups self segregate based on heritage.

[AKA2D '91]

Did anyone see "Anyday Now" Sunday on Lifetime? Same topic was discussed.

[Talaxe]

AKA2D1:

Did anyone see "Anyday Now" Sunday on Lifetime? Same topic was discussed.

My favorite show! I hope it doesn't suffer the fate of "City of Angels" so soon!

[Cultured Pearl]

Originally posted by Ideal08:
Sorors & SF's,

Any one's mom a Link?

LOL! Soror, my mom is a Link, but so am I...and I'm only 32, which I must admit, does make me one of the younger Links.

[kitten03]

Ideal,
Thanks for the topic. You just gave me a great idea for a fellowship i'm applying for.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by kisses:
Ideal,
I have read the book and I felt that in a lot of ways it was very acurate. I attended a an HBCU with a reputation of snobbiness. There was a large number of students who had parents that belonged to Links and were Jack and Jill members. I was not even close to living that type of life when I was growing up. Consequently, I often felt out of place at school. Some of these people were just like anyone else while some of them were very uppity. Often times people just assumed because I attended that school that I too had that mentality. However, just as stated before, Blacks often times fall into the materialistic, classist devisive mentality that whites have. I think Mr. Graham was merely giving us a chance to see a segment of our community that is often off limits to the average African American.

kisses,
May I ask what school you attended? I ask because my alma mater had/has the same rep, but I found, for the most part, for it to be untrue while I was a student there.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by kisses:
I attended a an HBCU with a reputation of snobbiness. There was a large number of students who had parents that belonged to Links and were Jack and Jill members.

I think I know what school you're talking about. I have a friend there.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by kitten03:
Ideal,
Thanks for the topic. You just gave me a great idea for a fellowship i'm applying for.

No prob!!

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by Ideal08:
Sorors & SF's,

Has anyone read the book Our Kind of People? I think that's the name of it, by Lawrence Graham. I hope I have that down, but anywho... I have been reading bits and pieces of that book, and many parts of it distress me. I was wondering how you all feel on the topic of the Black Elite, or elitism at all for that manner. I feel like in striving to have more (and there is never anything wrong with that), our people many times try to emulate White Americans (slave mentality, another post for another day). This one lady in the book even said that if [affluent] White people don't associate with middle/lower class/blue collar whites, so why should she associate with those same Black counterparts? The idea of separatism based on class is simply beyond me, but I would like to get a better understanding of it, regardless of whether I agree with it.

So help me sistas! Is anyone in here from an elite social class family? Any one's mom a Link? Summers on Martha's Vineyard? Were you in Jack and Jill growing up?

I can't wait to see your responses!! This whole thing is so interesting to me!!!

As if we NEED another enemey trying to divide us! Throughout our time here in this country, generation after generation, we black folk have allowed other groups' problems to affect us; and it's impact always is magnified tenfold when it's with us. WEB Dubois and his theory of which direction we should go after Reconstruction vs. Booker T's idea; then there was the brother from Jamaica with THE BLACK BEAUTY, a ship that would take us all back home to Africa; then there was the Separation vs. Integration argument; then Martin's non-violent way vs. Malcolm's way; then wannabees vs. jigaboos and finally rich needroes vs. all other needroes.

Being black use to not be an option; today-with that kind of discussion going on-it may be.

[kisses]

Ideal,
I have read the book and I felt that in a lot of ways it was very acurate. I attended a an HBCU with a reputation of snobbiness. There was a large number of students who had parents that belonged to Links and were Jack and Jill members. I was not even close to living that type of life when I was growing up. Consequently, I often felt out of place at school. Some of these people were just like anyone else while some of them were very uppity. Often times people just assumed because I attended that school that I too had that mentality. However, just as stated before, Blacks often times fall into the materialistic, classist devisive mentality that whites have. I think Mr. Graham was merely giving us a chance to see a segment of our community that is often off limits to the average African American.

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[AKA2D '91]

You know what I have found?

I hope I don't step on anyone's shoes....

Many of the people I knew who's parents were the "So-called elite", today, they (the kids) aren't doing better than anyone else! In fact, some of them, I know are "barely getting by, BARELY MAKING IT". Even a STATISTIC!

I know WHO I AM AND WHOSE I AM! That's just as Elite as being a Link, SLINK, DINK, OR FINK! LOL; AND having my kids in Jack and Jill, PILL, LILL, OR DILL! LOL LOL

In the END, ALL OF THIS WON'T MATTER! THAT WILL ONLY BE SECONDARY!

[Teresa2000]

I know what you mean. I grew up around a lot of "Jack and Jill" kids and they went to the same university that I did. When we graduate we will be going to the same law schools, med schools, grad schools, etc... The point is, this new economy has made a lot of 'new rich' and the Clinton admin. made it a lot easier for poor kids to go to college. I think all that elitist stuff did matter in the past but now it kind of obsolete!

-Teresa