A Victory for Sororities: Education Department Rules Sororities Are for Women Only

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by naraht

So existance of Y chromosome determines it for you, not what you can see externally, regardless of whether that infant looks like most babies with XX.

You keep asking the same question but skipping the answer. If the outside doesn’t match, doctors don’t just guess, they run a karyotype because chromosomes settle what the anatomy can’t.

That’s not my rule, that’s medicine. You’re proving my point every time you circle back, lol.

I’m not going to let you pretend you’re discovering new ground when you’re just going in circles.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

You keep asking the same question but skipping the answer. If the outside doesn’t match, doctors don’t just guess, they run a karyotype because chromosomes settle what the anatomy can’t.

That’s not my rule, that’s medicine. You’re proving my point every time you circle back, lol.

I’m not going to let you pretend you’re discovering new ground when you’re just going in circles.

Karyotypes are only run if there is some reason to. If the body looks "Female Normal", why run a Karyotype that would show that there is a Y?

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by naraht

Karyotypes are only run if there is some reason to. If the body looks "Female Normal", why run a Karyotype that would show that there is a Y?

…. Umm.. when you do look, it’s the final answer. The blueprint settles the mismatch. And when you don’t look, you’re just assuming the blueprint matches the appearance, so you’re still trusting the blueprint. So you’re admitting the blueprint matters so much you only test when you suspect it might not match — meaning the blueprint’s the standard. So, you just proved my point… again.

You’re not throwing me off, naraht, you’re just proving my point on repeat, lol. It’s like, you keep dressing the same question in new outfits.

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

You keep asking the same question but skipping the answer. If the outside doesn’t match, doctors don’t just guess, they run a karyotype because chromosomes settle what the anatomy can’t.

That’s not my rule, that’s medicine. You’re proving my point every time you circle back, lol.

I’m not going to let you pretend you’re discovering new ground when you’re just going in circles.

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

…. Umm.. when you do look, it’s the final answer. The blueprint settles the mismatch. And when you don’t look, you’re just assuming the blueprint matches the appearance, so you’re still trusting the blueprint. So you’re admitting the blueprint matters so much you only test when you suspect it might not match — meaning the blueprint’s the standard. So, you just proved my point… again.

You’re not throwing me off, naraht, you’re just proving my point on repeat, lol. It’s like, you keep dressing the same question in new outfits.

LMAO! I hollered.

[Pinkmagnolia921]

I'm feeling a bit under the weather so hope I can express myself clearly. A while back there was a very long post about the KKG/Wyoming situation. Comments were ultimately turned off because some comments became truly hateful.

Included in that post was a link to a PDF about Kappa's rules about Transgender members living in one of their chapter houses. These included giving a Tran's member her own room in the house if a Single Room was available. If not, the Trans Sister had the right to occupy a double room and the chapter would pay the rent for the empty bed.

I was a bit flabbergasted at the time about why they were bending over backwards to help Trans members live in the house at the exclusion of another Sister who might have wanted that empty bed?

Do any Sororities currently have Trans members living in a chapter house? While this is not the same issue, do Sororities allow gay women who are sexual partners to live together as roommates? What happens if this couple breaks up, but still have to occupy the same room because there is no place else to live. Do we allow our gay Sisters to bring home a sexual partner for the night, when we don't allow our straight Sisters to bring a guy up to the second floor of the house, ever? There is just so much more nuance to these things when I was a Collegian.

[Phrozen Sands]

I’m still over here trippin that (according to Belle) black folks are “equal” to a weirdo asking for acceptance into a predominantly white GLO, as if they’re the “standard”.

[33girl]

I just tried that link in the other thread and it didn't work.

Also gay couples have been roommates and dormmates since the dawn of time. They just didn't talk about it.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Phrozen, yes, I am a member of the DAR, First Families of Western Pennsylvania, and a couple other pedigree societies. I was raised on genealogy, and my mother was very involved in various groups. Every now and again, I go into a genealogical frenzy and make an attempt on The Mayflower Society. My DNA says that I'm a descendant, but I still need to document the lineage.

I really enjoy "Finding Your Roots," and "Who Do You Think You Are?" - it's the reallife mystery that fascinates me.

I qualify on both sides of my family! I just need to get the marriage and birth certificates for two people and I'm all set. During the pandemic, I spent lots of my time doing family research and ended up learning that I can trace my ancestry to someone who fought in most American wars, including the French & Indian! My husband recently became a British citizen based on some of primary sources I was able to locate.

Last month, I got a piece of mail I'd been waiting on for a while. My husband asked, "Why are you getting death certificates in the mail?"

Not commenting on the primary topic, than to say that transgender women have always been members of our organizations, but always ready for a genealogy-related lane swerve.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I qualify on both sides of my family! I just need to get the marriage and birth certificates for two people and I'm all set. During the pandemic, I spent lots of my time doing family research and ended up learning that I can trace my ancestry to someone who fought in most American wars, including the French & Indian! My husband recently became a British citizen based on some of primary sources I was able to locate.

On Veteran's Day and similar holiday, my mother would say to my daddy, "someone in my family fought in every war that America has ever been in!" He would respond, "Your family couldn't get along with anyone!"

When it comes to the pedigree associations, you really have to pick your favorites - it gets very expensive, very quickly! Good luck!

[Zach]

Originally Posted by Phrozen Sands

I’m still over here trippin that (according to Belle) black folks are “equal” to a weirdo asking for acceptance into a predominantly white GLO, as if they’re the “standard”.

But are they really the standard? The traditional?

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by Zach

But are they really the standard? The traditional?

She insinuated it in so many words. Like her shit is the norm while the weirdos and black peoples are “other” Lol.

[Zach]

Originally Posted by Phrozen Sands

She insinuated it in so many words. Like her shit is the norm while the weirdos and black peoples are “other” Lol.

I’m not checking your post to call you out, because you’re not wrong to trip over that. But let’s really frame this with a little context, because the idea that predominantly white fraternities and sororities are the “standard” for Greek life is honestly kind of shaky when you look at the bigger historical lens.

Let’s look at the Greek letters themselves. The letters didn’t originate in isolation. The Greek alphabet evolved from the Phoenician script, which was heavily influenced by ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, meaning Africa and the Mediterranean were the real blueprint for what would become the Greek letters you see today. So even the symbols that white GLOs hold up as “traditional” trace back to Black and brown civilizations.

Go back to us, The Divine Nine. We didn’t just copy what was already there. We turned it into something new, a cultural institution that combined community service, scholarship, social justice, and cultural preservation. It wasn’t imitation, it was transformation.

So yeah, historically white fraternities were first in this country on paper, but that’s not the same thing as defining what Greek life became for Black people. We took an idea that started as a closed door and made it open-hearted for our communities. We planted it in culture, and that’s why it lives.

Are they really the “standard”? Or were they just the starting point? Because there’s a difference. And the difference is what keeps us enduring long after the party’s over. If you look at ours in comparison to theirs, I don’t know why you care or why her comment bothered you. Why are you offended? If you knew your history and knew that when you give Black people an inch, we go a 100 miles with it, I don’t think what was said would eat at you like it’s doing. When they make false comments like that, you really shouldn’t care and it shouldn’t bother you.

[Zach]

On a separate post, since some folks over here are fascinated with genealogy, here’s a free history snack. If you trace your line back far enough, you’re going to hit Africa whether you like it or not. That’s not an opinion, that’s just genetics. Modern humans originated in Africa, migrated out, and spread around the globe. So that proud Viking DNA you’re bragging about? Congratulations, your distant cousin is probably rocking braids on the Serengeti 60,000 years ago.

So when people act like their way is the “norm” and ours is the “other”, it’s kind of funny. Culturally, biologically, and historically, we’re all more connected than half y’all want to admit. You don’t have to like it but it’s the truth. Technically, everybody came from us. We are the standard, the traditional, and the original. So as far as the Greek system is concerned, first on paper means nothing when the real first people are your ancestors too. The same “originals” you excluded from your organizations are the reason you exist, biologically AND culturally. Just spitting facts.

We are The Divine Nine. You came from us.

Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Zach

I’m not checking your post to call you out, because you’re not wrong to trip over that. But let’s really frame this with a little context, because the idea that predominantly white fraternities and sororities are the “standard” for Greek life is honestly kind of shaky when you look at the bigger historical lens.

Let’s look at the Greek letters themselves. The letters didn’t originate in isolation. The Greek alphabet evolved from the Phoenician script, which was heavily influenced by ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, meaning Africa and the Mediterranean were the real blueprint for what would become the Greek letters you see today. So even the symbols that white GLOs hold up as “traditional” trace back to Black and brown civilizations.

Ahem… So, first off, I’m first generation ethnic Greek here in the States. My mother’s side is directly from Greece, so my grandparents came over with her, settled in the Midwest, and built everything from scratch. She was old enough to bring all of our real tradition with her, so when people talk about Greek life, I always laugh a little because for me it’s not just letters, it’s literally my bloodline, our language, our faith, our food, and our family values that survived for thousands of years.

You’re right, Zach. Historically, the Greek alphabet didn’t start in like some vacuum. Like you said, it did evolve from Phoenician scripts, which were heavily influenced by Egyptian hieroglyphs. So technically, the letters sororities and fraternities wear today trace back through Africa, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East before they ever showed up on a sorority or fraternity tee. That’s a fact, not just my family pride.

But for the record, I’ll mention what you didn’t, Zach. The Phoenicians weren’t African, they were Levantine, but their writing system was shaped by Egyptian scribes on African soil. That’s how culture works — trade, travel, mixing ideas for centuries. So if you trace your “proud” Greek letters all the way back, yes, you’re gonna hit the shores of the Nile. If you wanna call it Afro-Mediterranean, that’s fine. But it still goes through us — my real, ethnic Greek roots.

So like, this alphabet and all this cultural knowledge physically ran through MY family line. Ancient Greece didn’t just borrow Phoenician symbols, we built an entire language and identity from it.

So, my Greek family line literally carried that alphabet forward. Just sayin..

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by Zach

I’m not checking your post to call you out, because you’re not wrong to trip over that. But let’s really frame this with a little context, because the idea that predominantly white fraternities and sororities are the “standard” for Greek life is honestly kind of shaky when you look at the bigger historical lens.

Let’s look at the Greek letters themselves. The letters didn’t originate in isolation. The Greek alphabet evolved from the Phoenician script, which was heavily influenced by ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, meaning Africa and the Mediterranean were the real blueprint for what would become the Greek letters you see today. So even the symbols that white GLOs hold up as “traditional” trace back to Black and brown civilizations.

Go back to us, The Divine Nine. We didn’t just copy what was already there. We turned it into something new, a cultural institution that combined community service, scholarship, social justice, and cultural preservation. It wasn’t imitation, it was transformation.

So yeah, historically white fraternities were first in this country on paper, but that’s not the same thing as defining what Greek life became for Black people. We took an idea that started as a closed door and made it open-hearted for our communities. We planted it in culture, and that’s why it lives.

Are they really the “standard”? Or were they just the starting point? Because there’s a difference. And the difference is what keeps us enduring long after the party’s over. If you look at ours in comparison to theirs, I don’t know why you care or why her comment bothered you. Why are you offended? If you knew your history and knew that when you give Black people an inch, we go a 100 miles with it, I don’t think what was said would eat at you like it’s doing. When they make false comments like that, you really shouldn’t care and it shouldn’t bother you.

I know my history, I just don’t like it when somebody like her tries to dilute it with some bullshit that doesn’t make any sense. Glad she didn’t bring her dumbass back over here.

Originally Posted by Zach

On a separate post, since some folks over here are fascinated with genealogy, here’s a free history snack. If you trace your line back far enough, you’re going to hit Africa whether you like it or not. That’s not an opinion, that’s just genetics. Modern humans originated in Africa, migrated out, and spread around the globe. So that proud Viking DNA you’re bragging about? Congratulations, your distant cousin is probably rocking braids on the Serengeti 60,000 years ago.

So when people act like their way is the “norm” and ours is the “other”, it’s kind of funny. Culturally, biologically, and historically, we’re all more connected than half y’all want to admit. You don’t have to like it but it’s the truth. Technically, everybody came from us. We are the standard, the traditional, and the original. So as far as the Greek system is concerned, first on paper means nothing when the real first people are your ancestors too. The same “originals” you excluded from your organizations are the reason you exist, biologically AND culturally. Just spitting facts.

We are The Divine Nine. You came from us.

Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc.

Facts! I never looked at it from this perspective. Well said.

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Ahem… So, first off, I’m first generation ethnic Greek here in the States. My mother’s side is directly from Greece, so my grandparents came over with her, settled in the Midwest, and built everything from scratch. She was old enough to bring all of our real tradition with her, so when people talk about Greek life, I always laugh a little because for me it’s not just letters, it’s literally my bloodline, our language, our faith, our food, and our family values that survived for thousands of years.

You’re right, Zach. Historically, the Greek alphabet didn’t start in like some vacuum. Like you said, it did evolve from Phoenician scripts, which were heavily influenced by Egyptian hieroglyphs. So technically, the letters sororities and fraternities wear today trace back through Africa, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East before they ever showed up on a sorority or fraternity tee. That’s a fact, not just my family pride.

But for the record, I’ll mention what you didn’t, Zach. The Phoenicians weren’t African, they were Levantine, but their writing system was shaped by Egyptian scribes on African soil. That’s how culture works — trade, travel, mixing ideas for centuries. So if you trace your “proud” Greek letters all the way back, yes, you’re gonna hit the shores of the Nile. If you wanna call it Afro-Mediterranean, that’s fine. But it still goes through us — my real, ethnic Greek roots.

So like, this alphabet and all this cultural knowledge physically ran through MY family line. Ancient Greece didn’t just borrow Phoenician symbols, we built an entire language and identity from it.

So, my Greek family line literally carried that alphabet forward. Just sayin..

LMAO! CG agreed with dude, then lit him up with added history of her own Zach either left out on purpose or forgot about, then snatched her history back from dude, reclaiming it as hers, all in one post LOL!

What’s Lavantine mean?