Transwomen and rush.

[FSUZeta]

The long and the short of it is, women are being marginalized. Our needs are being ignored. Almost all of the sorority national officers have given in to a minute minority at the expense of the majority, who are too intimidated, for fear of being bullied or ostracized, to voice their concerns. And just like in the Wyoming Kappa case, these decisions were made at the council level, not in an open forum where the majority vote would determine the outcome. Most of us have had sorority sisters who are lesbians. There was/ still is no issue with that, because those sisters are women, and there is no safety risk. Allowing men, even those claiming to identify as women, into our sororities puts our female sisters safety at risk, and that is wrong. What was a safe haven for women is not anymore. And you have to ask yourself why do our national councils think this is okay? Wouldn’t allowing men as members violate Title IX( as it should for sports, but that is another thread for another day).



And Clemsongirl, your post is a great illustration why sisters are reluctant to speak out.

[carnation]

I love the past 2 posts so much.

In the recent past, I taught ESOL and adult ed at a small college. There was a man (not in ESOL but adult ed) who claimed to be a woman and at break time, he would go into the bathroom and lean against the wall and stare at the women. All of our women were either Muslim or Hispanic and they were terrified. Until he finally left, they would go waaayy over to the other side of the college just to use the bathroom.

I am glad that the national media picked up on this.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

<snip>
Allowing men, even those claiming to identify as women, into our sororities puts our female sisters safety at risk, and that is wrong. What was a safe haven for women is not anymore. And you have to ask yourself why do our national councils think this is okay? Wouldn’t allowing men as members violate Title IX( as it should for sports, but that is another thread for another day).

Transgender women are women. Not "men ... claiming to identify as women".

That said, I'm convinced the numbers of trans women in the 18-22 age group attending college and seeking sorority membership are minuscule. It's hard to take a case as (seemingly) blatant as this one and attempt to generalize to all trans women seeking membership.

[carnation]

This guy has claimed to be a lizard for years, tattooing his body and forking his tongue and eating bugs...is he a lizard? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toAz...onalGeographic

Rachel Dolezal was excoriated for claiming she was black and heading a major black organization...is she black? Can she be black because she says she's black? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...i-was-being-me

Can I decide that I want to be Asian like 4 of my daughters, just by saying, "OK, I'm Asian now"?

Can I say I'm a lawyer if I want to and people should be shamed for denying it to me?

You have to draw a line and not pick and choose, to be honest.

[bevinpiphi]

Originally Posted by carnation

This guy has claimed to be a lizard for years, tattooing his body and forking his tongue and eating bugs...is he a lizard? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toAz...onalGeographic

Rachel Dolezal was excoriated for claiming she was black and heading a major black organization...is she black? Can she be black because she says she's black? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...i-was-being-me

Can I decide that I want to be Asian like 4 of my daughters, just by saying, "OK, I'm Asian now"?

Can I say I'm a lawyer if I want to and people should be shamed for denying it to me?

You have to draw a line and not pick and choose, to be honest.

Gender identity is far different from species and race, and I think you know that. This whataboutism is gross.

[carnation]

No, it's not. It's all about: what can people claim to be? Can they change their biological sex? Or race? Or even species?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

Gender identity is far different from species and race.

Who says?

[ASTalumna06]

clemsongirl, I attempted to send you a PM, but your inbox is full.

Originally Posted by 33girl

And let’s be super clear: if there was a cis woman whose GPA didn’t measure up, who made bizarre comments at rush, and who sat around staring at other women when they were changing clothes or doing yoga, I wouldn’t blame a chapter for wanting her out, either.

Originally Posted by DGTess

Transgender women are women. Not "men ... claiming to identify as women".

That said, I'm convinced the numbers of trans women in the 18-22 age group attending college and seeking sorority membership are minuscule. It's hard to take a case as (seemingly) blatant as this one and attempt to generalize to all trans women seeking membership.

*Quoted the above for emphasis*

IMO, if the allegations are correct, the problem is the national org, not the transgender member who was given a bid.

If this was a cis woman who was pushed through with a sub-par GPA and who made the chapter members uncomfortable, I have to imagine this would still be a major issue. Granted, maybe not a lawsuit, as it might not violate their by-laws, but there SHOULD be the same level of outrage as we're seeing now surrounding this particular case.

I know there are many chapters out there that have been very welcoming of transgender/non-binary members. They are pushing for their orgs to be more inclusive. They feel safe with these members (who have met at least the minimum requirements for membership). There are already thousands of these members within our ranks, and as far as I can tell, there haven't been major safety issues and lawsuits.

If anyone wants to argue against having transgender people as part of NPC sororities due to Title IX, or traditional/historic reasons, or anything else, then make that argument. But don't use this case to do so by painting every transgender person as a predator. Because ultimately, if the allegations are true, this was the fault of the national org, not the creepy, unqualified person who was forced onto the chapter.

[jbakajp]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I know there are many chapters out there that have been very welcoming of transgender/non-binary members...There are already thousands of these members within our ranks...

Originally Posted by DGTess

...I'm convinced the numbers of trans women in the 18-22 age group attending college and seeking sorority membership are minuscule.

If we already have "thousands" of transgendered/non-binary members, it is reasonable to think that there is only a "minuscule" possibility that more will want to join our groups in the near future?

Here's a New York Times article from 6/10/2022 about a study by the Williams Institute, a research center at UCLA's School of Law that may shed a bit of light on what our informal, collective pool of PNMs looks like:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/s...al-survey.html

The Williams Institute is reportedly very experienced in studying LGBTQ demographics, behaviors and policy concerns. Its analysis of two CDC health surveys, the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System and the Youth Risk Behavior Survey, is the basis of the NYT article:

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...united-states/

In a nutshell, per the NYT, the institute found that, "[t]he number of young people who identify as transgender has nearly doubled in recent years...."

Quoting the NYT article, the institute found that “[t]eenagers and adults under 25 make up an estimated 43 percent of the transgender population.” Broken down further, “[w]hile younger teenagers [a]re just 7.6 percent of the total U.S. population, they ma[k]e up roughly 18 percent of transgender people. Likewise, 18- to 24-year-olds ma[k]e up 11 percent of the total population but 24 percent of the transgender population.”

Per the webpage for the Williams Institute study, "[n]early one in five people who identify as transgender are ages 13-17."

Other articles I have read all seem to say the same thing - there is a rapid increase in the number of young people that are identifying as transgender. If this is true, then simple logic would indicate that the number of transgendered people wanting to join single-sex fraternities and sororities will also increase.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Transgender women are women. Not "men ... claiming to identify as women".
.

You and I will have to disagree on this one Tess. I think the key word here is “identify”. Transgender women by definition are males who identify as women. They have penises, they do not have vaginas. They aren’t women, they just think they are. In the children’s book everyone expressed what beautiful clothes the emperor was wearing because they were all afraid to point out he was actually naked, however, it did not change the circumstance.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

You and I will have to disagree on this one Tess. I think the key word here is “identify”. Transgender women by definition are males who identify as women. They have penises, they do not have vaginas. They aren’t women, they just think they are. In the children’s book everyone expressed what beautiful clothes the emperor was wearing because they were all afraid to point out he was actually naked, however, it did not change the circumstance.

My closest transgender friend, Laura, does in fact have a vagina, and no penis. It may have been a surgical intervention, but in fact is so. She should not have to show it to prove her status.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by DGTess

My closest transgender friend, Laura, does in fact have a vagina, and no penis. It may have been a surgical intervention, but in fact is so. She should not have to show it to prove her status.

Exactly.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by DGTess

My closest transgender friend, Laura, does in fact have a vagina, and no penis. It may have been a surgical intervention, but in fact is so. She should not have to show it to prove her status.

Betting nobody wants to look at it either.