The Future of Greek Life

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I liken it to the music industry shift. For a while, the only way to "make it" was to go through a label and that whole process. Now you can forge your own path independently or within small collectives without the backing of a huge label.

If, in fact, today's students have this mindset, then they should start an independent greek organization (local); not go through recruitment, join an established chapter, and then decide they don't like the rules they have pledged to abide, and try to shut the chapter down. Granted, I do not follow the music industry closely, but I haven't heard of disillusioned artists trying to shut down large and established record companies because the artists might not have been chosen to work for them, because the company only chooses people with musical talent, and/or who have good looks.

If they forge their own path independently in Greek life, they can start their own chapter, they can set their own standards, make their own rules, and pledge whomever they please-similar to the independent record companies/small collectives.

My issue is with students trying to shut down organizations they are not members of, because they don't like the concept of the org, as well as members of organizations who have now decided they no longer want to be a member, and they do not want anyone else to be a member. These tactics remind me of brownshirt strategies. Bullying at its highest level.

There are several national/international organizations with whom I have philosophical differences, but I would not try to shut them down. I merely do not support them. If all the organizations anyone didn't like were shut down, there would be no organizations remaining.

[carnation]

Preach!!!

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by carnation

--I don't know what it's like where you live but frequently the kids here who go to community/tech colleges as freshmen do not have the high school grades to get into 4 year schools. There are, of course, exceptions but I don't see the schools I know well having enough of them to form a viable chapter.-

Then keep the same GPA requirement. I also don't see why expansions to these schools can't be selective - just like they are with four-year institutions currently.

- I have actually seen pushes to accept everyone who wants to sign up. One of these happened at a college where I taught; one year it was required that everyone get a bid. Our most bizarre students came out of the woodwork and pledged and it was hell for quite some time. The dean who thought up that crap suddenly left the school midyear.

So one school one year attempted this, it failed, and the dean left. ::shrugs:: This seems very anecdotal and doesn't point to widespread changes being pushed.

--Not sure where you would start on this one. "Hey, this girl is a real troll, let's pledge her and those 2 trolls from Hickstown to make our "unattractiveness" quota."

--"OK, would pledging those 2 600-lb. girls and the one with 8 eyes satisfy those outsiders who are demanding a looks quota?"

--"Where's that scale where we rate girls on their attractiveness? We need to decide if those 3 girls we discussed are ugly enough to put on the bid list and satisfy outsiders."--/QUOTE]

I'm not arguing to put policies in place surrounding this, per say, and certainly not the extreme and unrealistic ones you've suggested. I was speaking of perceptions and why some are turned off by Greek life. And when our national orgs are sending down directives to only take the "pretty girls", that doesn't help. All it takes is one, and people think the whole system operates that way.

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

If, in fact, today's students have this mindset, then they should start an independent greek organization (local); not go through recruitment, join an established chapter, and then decide they don't like the rules they have pledged to abide, and try to shut the chapter down. Granted, I do not follow the music industry closely, but I haven't heard of disillusioned artists trying to shut down large and established record companies because the artists might not have been chosen to work for them, because the company only chooses people with musical talent, and/or who have good looks.

I won't speak for knight_shadow, but I don't think his comments were referring to the people trying to shut down these chapters. You even said so in the second half of the paragraph above - that would be comparing apples and oranges since artists aren't trying to shut down record companies.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I won't speak for knight_shadow, but I don't think his comments were referring to the people trying to shut down these chapters. You even said so in the second half of the paragraph above - that would be comparing apples and oranges since artists aren't trying to shut down record companies.

That's my point exactly. These artists found a solution that enabled them to do what they wanted, without shutting down the existing record companies or abolishing the record business altogether. They acted like adults, worked around the problem and moved on.

If the artists make great music independently, people will buy it. If these disgruntled members or outsiders make a viable and better alternative to current Greek life, people will join, and our orgs will eventually die out due to attrition. But I don't see any alternatives being offered when members want to shut down their chapters.They are not resigning their memberships and starting a new, better, independent "personhood"; they are demanding that their chapter be closed, forever and a day, and that is what I have a problem with.

[carnation]

AST. that was the only instance I cited. I know of several more where schools got all touchy-feely-kumbaya-let's pledge everyone and it all went down the toilet. For instance, I believe I have referenced another one from Birmingham Southern several times but this time I only spoke of the one that a college I taught at because I lived that one.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by carnation

--Not sure where you would start on this one. "Hey, this girl is a real troll, let's pledge her and those 2 trolls from Hickstown to make our "unattractiveness" quota."

--"OK, would pledging those 2 600-lb. girls and the one with 8 eyes satisfy those outsiders who are demanding a looks quota?"

--"Where's that scale where we rate girls on their attractiveness? We need to decide if those 3 girls we discussed are ugly enough to put on the bid list and satisfy outsiders."--

That's quite a leap to go from "maybe we should look beyond having Stepford Chapters" and "we need a fat and ugly quota."

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

If, in fact, today's students have this mindset, then they should start an independent greek organization (local); not go through recruitment, join an established chapter, and then decide they don't like the rules they have pledged to abide, and try to shut the chapter down. Granted, I do not follow the music industry closely, but I haven't heard of disillusioned artists trying to shut down large and established record companies because the artists might not have been chosen to work for them, because the company only chooses people with musical talent, and/or who have good looks.

If they forge their own path independently in Greek life, they can start their own chapter, they can set their own standards, make their own rules, and pledge whomever they please-similar to the independent record companies/small collectives.

My issue is with students trying to shut down organizations they are not members of, because they don't like the concept of the org, as well as members of organizations who have now decided they no longer want to be a member, and they do not want anyone else to be a member. These tactics remind me of brownshirt strategies. Bullying at its highest level.

There are several national/international organizations with whom I have philosophical differences, but I would not try to shut them down. I merely do not support them. If all the organizations anyone didn't like were shut down, there would be no organizations remaining.

Perhaps I missed something (if there's a thread somewhere, happy to go look at it) but are outsiders calling the shots?

My perception from what I've seen posted here is less "let's infiltrate Greek Life in order to destroy it" and more "Yay I'm happy to join - wait a minute, now that I'm in, this isn't what I thought it would be and I/HQ doesn't want us to change it."

If (general) you are selling something ("we value our diverse and inclusive brotherhood!") that doesn't seem to turn out to be accurate ("97% of us look like the football team from Country Club High School!"), it makes sense that people would have some buyers remorse.

And we almost always tell people to be the change they want to see. If those requests go unanswered, then why would the outgoing members care about the fallout as they exit?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Perhaps I missed something (if there's a thread somewhere, happy to go look at it) but are outsiders calling the shots?

Yes. DEI consultants are making recommendations and policies are being changed outside of the GLO’s voting body (aka convention). Even if it is something that technically doesn’t require a membership wide vote, to present the membership with a fait accompli really isn’t the best way to get them to buy into whatever it is. The biggest example is the scuttling of legacy policies.

And incidentally, this has been going on in a lot of different arenas for a long time (like pledge programs written by an outside source).

[33girl]

As far as creating a local Greek group, I’d be all for that, if it wasn’t for the fact that many colleges refuse to recognize them and compel them to seek national affiliation.

It also depends how far outside the “traditional” spectrum you want to be. If you want to start a completely alcohol free group, where no events include alcohol and all the members have taken a pledge not to drink ever, that’s one thing. But if you’re creating a group that has a less full event calendar to accommodate commuter students, that might not hold up.

As far as groups that don’t do membership selection, yes, everyone can pursue membership. Everyone is not always successful in that pursuit. That is my experience in such a group, anyway.

[*winter*]

In my sorority, if you wanted to be a sister, we took you on as a pledge. Pledges had to do their pledge assignments and pass quizzes- the pledge period was work, and not everyone was up for it. Nowadays things like pledge interviews would be considered hazing like, but nothing we did posed a true mental or physical risk to us, and we enjoyed the pledge process. It was rare for us to have pledges drop out, and usually only happened because of extenuating circumstances in that person’s life.

I’ve heard not all GSS chapters work this way, but it’s pretty strongly written into the rules of the organization that this is how it should work.

It just annoys me that these college students nowadays are acting like they’ve come up with some great new “woke” idea that there should be organizations that anyone can join- when my organization has existed for almost 70 years.

One of the things that bothers me about all of this is that...in some of the accounts I’ve read from women who have disaffiliated...they joined and were quite happy in the organization for many months or even years. It’s not until they experience their own “ding” that they suddenly decide the whole thing is not for them (often involving standards, or no longer being a part of the “in” crowd). Then- and only then- all of a sudden, they are the most woke people in the planet and have a problem with THE WHOLE SYSTEM and it needs to GO AWAY ASAP.

Just seems sort of hypocritical, that’s all. It’s like they don’t really care about being woke, or anything D&I and they are jumping on a bandwagon to throw dirt at organizations they have problems with for other reasons.

It’s like, the whole thing is okay, as long as it’s benefitting then. When it stops, it’s evil and needs to be destroyed.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yes. DEI consultants are making recommendations and policies are being changed outside of the GLO’s voting body (aka convention). Even if it is something that technically doesn’t require a membership wide vote, to present the membership with a fait accompli really isn’t the best way to get them to buy into whatever it is. The biggest example is the scuttling of legacy policies.

And incidentally, this has been going on in a lot of different arenas for a long time (like pledge programs written by an outside source).

Ahh. This is different than what I thought this thread was referencing. I thought it was "GDI tries to remove ABC Fraternity of campus" rather than "XYZ HQ hires consultant to make decisions without consulting entire organization." That may be where my wires were crossing.

[carnation]

This is causing a lot of NPC groups to lose a buttload of money from disgruntled alums.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I won't speak for knight_shadow, but I don't think his comments were referring to the people trying to shut down these chapters. You even said so in the second half of the paragraph above - that would be comparing apples and oranges since artists aren't trying to shut down record companies.

You're right - I was speaking about Greek Life in general.

But still - if this is becoming a trend (trying to shut down a chapter on your way out), it's also telling that "grow up, spoiled brats" is what is seemingly acceptable, rather than "I wonder why this is happening at an increased rate. Let's do a retrospective."

Just my $0.02

[carnation]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

But still - if this is becoming a trend (trying to shut down a chapter on your way out), it's also telling that "grow up, spoiled brats" is what is seemingly acceptable, rather than "I wonder why this is happening at an increased rate. Let's do a retrospective."

This is true!

But about quotas: some chapters have come under pressure lately in the DEI area. Quotas were major failures in the 70s and they will be if instituted now. What happened to freedom of association? I may not agree with some chapters' member choices but they can choose who they want.

And yes, knight shadow, various groups are trying to call the shots for NPC sororities.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by carnation

This is true!

But about quotas: some chapters have come under pressure lately in the DEI area. Quotas were major failures in the 70s and they will be if instituted now. What happened to freedom of association? I may not agree with some chapters' member choices but they can choose who they want.

And yes, knight shadow, various groups are trying to call the shots for NPC sororities.

True, they *can* choose who they want to associate with, but if the association was sustainable, there wouldn't be a ton of "what's happening to Greek Life!?" articles If folks want to dig their heels in the ground and be immovable, then I'm not sure they have much room to complain about shrinking membership.

Also, I had not seen anything about outsiders trying to call the shots; thanks for the info. Most of what I'd seen on here was members who had resigned. For the outsiders - I suspect the rebuttals to those people would be the same as the "OMG WHY DO YOU PAY FOR FRIENDS!?" people of years past, so they may be a non-factor.

[Cookiez17]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

True, they *can* choose who they want to associate with, but if the association was sustainable, there wouldn't be a ton of "what's happening to Greek Life!?" articles If folks want to dig their heels in the ground and be immovable, then I'm not sure they have much room to complain about shrinking membership.

Also, I had not seen anything about outsiders trying to call the shots; thanks for the info. Most of what I'd seen on here was members who had resigned. For the outsiders - I suspect the rebuttals to those people would be the same as the "OMG WHY DO YOU PAY FOR FRIENDS!?" people of years past, so they may be a non-factor.

Let's just say the pay for friends thing is still being thrown around now. During the time Alabama rush was going viral online, I saw countless comments in that vein.