"Woke"

[Sen's Revenge]

Thanks everybody, and thanks for reading.

[lake]

The horse is out of the gate regarding the word "woke" used in ways you disagree with. Regardless of its origins, it’s becoming a term used by many people.

The OP mentioned the word is used in songs, plays, and works of art - and emphasized black art. Although it wasn’t explicitly stated, I got the impression the subject of “cultural appropriation” was being approached or implied. I also got the impression that maybe I (and other non-black people) were being subtly told we can’t use the word because of the color of our skin or our heritage.

Cultures and language evolve over time and influence one another. Cultures have been borrowing from one another (and their languages) since the beginning of all of us. It would be arrogant for any group to claim “appropriation” because groups can’t exert ownership over words, things or trends. To claim cultural appropriation is to claim your group is above the mixing and influence happening when cultures meet. And that is insulting to those outside of your culture.

Someone using a word from the African American tradition and them not being African American is allowed in a free society. Perhaps it is becoming somewhat of a slur, but again, once it’s out there no one can possibly control how it’s used. I bristle at disparaging terms used to describe me and others like me just because we have different (not better or worse) beliefs.

If there are white people in organizations calling themselves “woke”, they CAN (even if you don’t think they should). Even if it grates my ears as much as it does yours (and it does). Being uncomfortable and annoyed sometimes is the price people pay to live in a free society. And unrestricted speech is allowed in a free society. And I am willing to die on this hill.

Calling people "woke" or even "fake woke" is probably not what you’re thinking, or what the other person is intending. It probably comes from a sense of annoyance, not racial hatred. Feeling constantly disrespected because we hold different (not necessarily better or worse) values and beliefs. Think micro-aggression.

Some may be offended that I disagree that certain people can’t use certain words because of the color of their skin or their heritage. To me, this says, at best, "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "RACIST".

As the OP said, most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

[What?]

Originally Posted by lake

The horse is out of the gate regarding the word "woke" used in ways you disagree with. Regardless of its origins, it’s becoming a term used by many people.

The OP mentioned the word is used in songs, plays, and works of art - and emphasized black art. Although it wasn’t explicitly stated, I got the impression the subject of “cultural appropriation” was being approached or implied. I also got the impression that maybe I (and other non-black people) were being subtly told we can’t use the word because of the color of our skin or our heritage.

Cultures and language evolve over time and influence one another. Cultures have been borrowing from one another (and their languages) since the beginning of all of us. It would be arrogant for any group to claim “appropriation” because groups can’t exert ownership over words, things or trends. To claim cultural appropriation is to claim your group is above the mixing and influence happening when cultures meet. And that is insulting to those outside of your culture.

Someone using a word from the African American tradition and them not being African American is allowed in a free society. Perhaps it is becoming somewhat of a slur, but again, once it’s out there no one can possibly control how it’s used. I bristle at disparaging terms used to describe me and others like me just because we have different (not better or worse) beliefs.

If there are white people in organizations calling themselves “woke”, they CAN (even if you don’t think they should). Even if it grates my ears as much as it does yours (and it does). Being uncomfortable and annoyed sometimes is the price people pay to live in a free society. And unrestricted speech is allowed in a free society. And I am willing to die on this hill.

Calling people "woke" or even "fake woke" is probably not what you’re thinking, or what the other person is intending. It probably comes from a sense of annoyance, not racial hatred. Feeling constantly disrespected because we hold different (not necessarily better or worse) values and beliefs. Think micro-aggression.

Some may be offended that I disagree that certain people can’t use certain words because of the color of their skin or their heritage. To me, this says, at best, "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "RACIST".

As the OP said, most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

Sorry if it have screwed up the quote, but I could not agree more. The question becomes to you want a melting pot or a stew? I personally prefer the melting pot.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by lake

The horse is out of the gate regarding the word "woke" used in ways you disagree with. Regardless of its origins, it’s becoming a term used by many people.

The OP mentioned the word is used in songs, plays, and works of art - and emphasized black art. Although it wasn’t explicitly stated, I got the impression the subject of “cultural appropriation” was being approached or implied. I also got the impression that maybe I (and other non-black people) were being subtly told we can’t use the word because of the color of our skin or our heritage.

Cultures and language evolve over time and influence one another. Cultures have been borrowing from one another (and their languages) since the beginning of all of us. It would be arrogant for any group to claim “appropriation” because groups can’t exert ownership over words, things or trends. To claim cultural appropriation is to claim your group is above the mixing and influence happening when cultures meet. And that is insulting to those outside of your culture.

Someone using a word from the African American tradition and them not being African American is allowed in a free society. Perhaps it is becoming somewhat of a slur, but again, once it’s out there no one can possibly control how it’s used. I bristle at disparaging terms used to describe me and others like me just because we have different (not better or worse) beliefs.

If there are white people in organizations calling themselves “woke”, they CAN (even if you don’t think they should). Even if it grates my ears as much as it does yours (and it does). Being uncomfortable and annoyed sometimes is the price people pay to live in a free society. And unrestricted speech is allowed in a free society. And I am willing to die on this hill.

Calling people "woke" or even "fake woke" is probably not what you’re thinking, or what the other person is intending. It probably comes from a sense of annoyance, not racial hatred. Feeling constantly disrespected because we hold different (not necessarily better or worse) values and beliefs. Think micro-aggression.

Some may be offended that I disagree that certain people can’t use certain words because of the color of their skin or their heritage. To me, this says, at best, "I am not open to learning about a point of view which differs from mine because I am holding onto my beliefs at all costs." And at worst, honestly? I am hearing you say "RACIST".

As the OP said, most of you reading this will not care. Some of you will be offended that I told you how I receive the words that you say. It is what it is. At least I've said it.

There are enough dog whistles in your post to let me know exactly who you are and what you believe, and believe me: I am not offended that I know you're racist.

[Pikefest]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

There are enough dog whistles in your post to let me know exactly who you are and what you believe, and believe me: I am not offended that I know you're racist.

This is why we can’t have open discussions about race. All dissenting opinions equal racism.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

Thanks everybody, and thanks for reading.

This should have been where this was /thread.

It's unfortunate that some folks want to use language which is harmful to others for no good reason at all. If someone says certain language is problematic and offers good reasons, what's the rationale for persisting? The question is not aimed at Sen, just rhetorical. I'm not sure why there are two sides to this issue.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by Kevin

This should have been where this was /thread.

It's unfortunate that some folks want to use language which is harmful to others for no good reason at all. If someone says certain language is problematic and offers good reasons, what's the rationale for persisting? The question is not aimed at Sen, just rhetorical. I'm not sure why there are two sides to this issue.

I don't see why there are two sides, either.

All logical opinions have been shared. The only real disagreement is with me as a person because it appears as though I have never been "checked" for being rude or vulgar. I'm arrogant and uppity, if you will.

And some folks can't stand it. :-)

In reality, there are moderators and super moderators on this site who have had far worse conduct than me--just without profanity. They know who they are and they know what they've done.

I'm not engaging anymore in this thread. Not because I'm "flouncing" because lord knows I hate a flounce LOL. But because, as you said, there is a persistence here. I don't think it comes from a good place, and it says more about them than it does about me.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

I don't see why there are two sides, either.

All logical opinions have been shared. The only real disagreement is with me as a person because it appears as though I have never been "checked" for being rude or vulgar. I'm arrogant and uppity, if you will.

And some folks can't stand it. :-)

In reality, there are moderators and super moderators on this site who have had far worse conduct than me--just without profanity. They know who they are and they know what they've done.

I'm not engaging anymore in this thread. Not because I'm "flouncing" because lord knows I hate a flounce LOL. But because, as you said, there is a persistence here. I don't think it comes from a good place, and it says more about them than it does about me.

"thumbs up."