Civil War Statues?

[Kevin]

My grandmother married into what I believe is the Johnston family, which produced two Confederate generals, Joseph E. Johnston and Albert Sidney Johnston. Step-grandfather's last name was Johnson (without the t) so I'm not quite sure how they were related, but in 1963 (or thereabouts), they went on a tour of the South with stepdad.

One of the stops along the way included a visit to see "Uncle Al" at the Johnston Plantation. I assume he was a descendant of General Albert Sidney Johnston. The Plantation was spared from Sherman's army as General Joseph E. Johnston fortified the Plantation with the Army of the Tennessee. Sherman simply left that Army alone and went about his destruction of the South. The Plantation was still in full operation. The Slave Quarters were occupied by whom you'd probably safely assume were the direct descendants of the former slaves of the Plantation. They were compensated only in company script which was only redeemable at the Company Store.

They met "Uncle Al" who was at the time wheelchair bound. He descended to greet them on an automatic chair lift. Across his lap was draped a Confederate Battle Flag. He lectured them regarding the black race (using the most pejorative term), that they were subhuman, needed to be governed by white men, etc. His wife challenged him on that point because she observed he required them to bow down and accept Jesus into their hearts when in his presence (he was a former travelling evangelist) and that his views were inconsistent if he believed blacks to be less than human.. my father reports that even despite his upbringing in then very segregated Enid, Oklahoma, this was all pretty terrifying stuff.

I thought that anecdote to be fairly instructive as to the views of the southerners who erected these statues as Uncle Al would have been around the right age to have had a hand in those statues erection. Someone from the midwest may simply lack the context to be able to understand why many southerners are eager to distance themselves from the views held by their forebears. Locally, Oklahoma has sort have been a wanna be Southern State. The KKK was such a force to be reckoned with locally that in the 1920s, following the Tulsa Race Riots, the Governor at the time declared marshal law in two counties and suspended habeas corpus. The KKK had such power that they were able to shut down the legislature and impeach said Governor within the year. Around that same time period many schools bearing the names of Confederate Generals were founded, all of our monuments were built between 1910 and 1917 with the notable exception of a monument in Wynnewood built in 2004. If you've been to Wynnewood, you'd understand.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I think there may be more, who are either conflicted or simply not speaking up.

Sure. That's why I was trying to be careful about how I phrased it in terms of people who had actually expressed an opinion. (Whether I succeeded in being careful is a different question. )

Originally Posted by Kevin

Someone from the midwest may simply lack the context to be able to understand why many southerners are eager to distance themselves from the views held by their forebears.

I think this is probably true. I also think that people who don't live here may lack the context or the first-hand experience to understand how the Lost Cause mythology/romanticism permeates things (though much less than it did when I was a child), the state (good and bad) of race relations now, or how these issues actually affect communities now.

In some ways, I think it may be a case of to "outsiders" (for want of a better term), this looks like a debate about monuments and history, while to many of us in the South—on both sides of the issue—it's more a debate about "who are we and what do we stand for?"

[1964Alum]

[QUOTE=MysticCat

"I think this is probably true. I also think that people who don't live here may lack the context or the first-hand experience to understand how the Lost Cause mythology/romanticism permeates things (though much less than it did when I was a child), the state (good and bad) of race relations now, or how these issues actually affect communities now.

In some ways, I think it may be a case of to "outsiders" (for want of a better term), this looks like a debate about monuments and history, while to many of us in the South—on both sides of the issue—it's more a debate about "who are we and what do we stand for?"

Yes, absolutely. The romanticism of the Old South goes far beyond the issue of slavery. I never had the kind of encounters as Kevin did with his "Uncle Al", but it went without saying that Blacks, other people of color, and even the lower classes of whites were of inferior stock. I was taught to never, EVER, be rude or disrespectful to Blacks (or darkies as they were called in Virginia) as that was the behavior a lower class white would exhibit. I was not to be rude or disrespectful to anyone. The Blacks on my family farms (they had stopped calling them plantations) were also descendants of slaves and still lived in the former slave cabins. They would run out and wave to us as we drove by.

The KKK as revived in the 20th century was also strongly opposed to immigrants, except those from northern European countries, Catholics (which came from Mediterranean European countries and Central and South America) and was very powerful nationwide! So a new form of White Supremacy arose. And along with it a focus on pedigree among whites. My Virginia belle grandmother was the first in my family to marry outside the very small list of Virginia families that were considered acceptable. She married -GASP- a first generation Swede! And didn't bring him home to marry! The fact that he had a Ph D from Yale was completely irrelevant. After I inherited a good many of the family documents, I discovered a card engraved on heavy paper stock an announcement by my great grandparents that my grandmother had married a Dr. so and so, whose name had been anglicized. The announcement was bordered in black, which was customary for death announcements! All of her siblings except one younger brother married within the "approved" families. The next generation went further afield, but not entirely. Mine went even further, but not entirely as well.

Pedigree became everything. Our horses had pedigrees, our dogs and cats, even my great uncles' prized Black Angus, which they were proud to display pictures of. No Confederate flags displayed, but I still have Confederate money issued and signed by my great grandfather. It is out of sight in a drawer. My grandmother had the coats of arms of each of her parents displayed, which I now have hanging in our library. When I pledged Chi Omega in another much more southern Confederate state maaaany years ago, those old family lines were still the ones recommendations were written for. That has changed, of course. Thankfully.

As [B]Mystic Cat [/B]stated, it is now a question of "who we are and what do we stand for." I don't deny my heritage, which was a mixture of good and not so good. I don't pay homage to that which was not so good. It is not part of my value system, and I haven't passed it on to my son except to be aware of it.