Indiana University Tri Delta Closed

[DeltaEmi88]

Originally Posted by PhilTau

The facts behind all this have not been disclosed. So these moms have a right to be pissed off. Keep in mind that several years of membership in this organization represents a significant financial investment totaling thousands of dollars-- dues, initiation fees, house charges, fines, assessments, clothes, etc. At the very least, they deserve from the national organization an accurate explanation of what happened. The people most damaged are the newest members, who joined without knowing that the chapter was about to end.

Okay, I have read through all of your posts, and I have to just say that as an alumna of the organization in question, I disagree with nearly everything you have said. First of all, chapter business is just that: chapter business. The women who are/were members of the chapter very clearly know what is wrong, since they were placed on probation. Our Executive Office is good at communicating with chapters, and if there is something that needs to be corrected, then they will tell them to correct it. Also, chapter business is NOT the business of the mothers of the members. The mothers are not active members of the chapter, and they most likely do not know about the internal affairs, policies, and bylaws of the chapter.

Second, the women of the chapter know what they are getting into when they join. I'm not going to go into it because it is chapter business, but the expectations for every member is clearly laid out. The new members have not been initiated, so it is not as if they were initiated and are now stuck on campus without a chapter. They are free to join another sorority.

And third, what occurred within the chapter is between the chapter and Executive Office. No one is owed an explanation of why the chapter was shut down, and furthermore, our EO did provide an explanation. Just because it is not detailed does not mean that it isn't an explanation. Private chapter business is just that-private. No mother is owed an explanation, same as alumni that were not involved. It is between the chapter members and EO.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaEmi88

Okay, I have read through all of your posts, and I have to just say that as an alumna of the organization in question, I disagree with nearly everything you have said. First of all, chapter business is just that: chapter business. The women who are/were members of the chapter very clearly know what is wrong, since they were placed on probation. Our Executive Office is good at communicating with chapters, and if there is something that needs to be corrected, then they will tell them to correct it. Also, chapter business is NOT the business of the mothers of the members. The mothers are not active members of the chapter, and they most likely do not know about the internal affairs, policies, and bylaws of the chapter.

Second, the women of the chapter know what they are getting into when they join. I'm not going to go into it because it is chapter business, but the expectations for every member is clearly laid out. The new members have not been initiated, so it is not as if they were initiated and are now stuck on campus without a chapter. They are free to join another sorority.

And third, what occurred within the chapter is between the chapter and Executive Office. No one is owed an explanation of why the chapter was shut down, and furthermore, our EO did provide an explanation. Just because it is not detailed does not mean that it isn't an explanation. Private chapter business is just that-private. No mother is owed an explanation, same as alumni that were not involved. It is between the chapter members and EO.

Try looking at it this way. Say your daughter was on a campus dance team where she had to buy her own uniform, attend a weeklong camp over the summer, and pay partial costs for travel to the places the team performed. All of a sudden, the team gets shut down and the girls have no way of recouping the money. No reason is given except some vague corporatespeak. As a parent, wouldn't you be angry?

I agree that these women are adults & that this is their fight, and probably didn't tell their parents everything, and that there's certainly some fwap fwapping. But to pooh-pooh all the parents' feelings, especially when many of them were probably paying the (not cheap) sorority dues, is just not realistic. Step out of thinking about it as a sorority member and think about it as a parent. Whether or not they have a legal right to feel that way, it's perfectly understandable that they do.

And I COMPLETELY disagree that chapter alumnae who weren't involved, whatever "involved" means, don't deserve a full explanation. That's along the same lines as saying alumnae who aren't advising or active in an alum chapter shouldn't be allowed to write recs.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And I COMPLETELY disagree that chapter alumnae who weren't involved, whatever "involved" means, don't deserve a full explanation. That's along the same lines as saying alumnae who aren't advising or active in an alum chapter shouldn't be allowed to write recs.

Not addressing your other comments b/c you already know where I stand on those issues, and others have also commented on the parents' "right to be angry" .

I can't follow or agree with your reasoning, and I offer my opinion based on personal experience. Here's why I think differently than you do on this issue:

We do not permit alumnae to participate in membership selection. We do not permit alumnae to attend chapter meetings (unless they are on the advisory board), and interfere in chapter business. We do not permit alumnae to attend social functions. Alumnae do not participate in chapter discipline proceedings. And so on. A "full explanation" involves details of chapter business which, frankly, are not alumnae business. As alumnae, we have a responsibility (and even a duty) to trust our headquarters/executive offices to be in charge and on top of what's going on at the college level. That is not our concern. There is a very strong element of trust, as well as ritual, involved here. And you can see where I'm going with this, as can anyone else who's reading.

In my experience, alumnae who "came out of the woodwork" only wanted to know gossip, dirty details, and "what did those girls do wrong?". The alumnae who were involved with the chapter, and the recent alumnae (new graduates, or those who graduated within the past five-ten years) are generally well aware of problems which lead to a chapter being put on probation or stricter discipline. And the rest of the Greek community, as well as the University administration, is aware. It is up to the individual members to explain (or not) to their parents. The members know why this happened.

For me it is enough to read that the chapter was closed for the reason(s) given. There is no correlation between providing a "full explanation" and writing a membership recommendation. It's apples and oranges. They are not equivalent.

[33girl]

I don't think whatever happened should be put on blast for the world to see just so alumnae can know what's up. But if a chapter alumna contacts HQ asking what happened, IMO she deserves more than just some vague corporatespeak about values and purpose. She wouldn't be a sister if that chapter hadn't existed.

Perhaps if some of the alumnae of chapters that close DID know more details of why it happened, they'd understand and agree with why HQ made such a decision and have more trust and respect when it happens in the future. It would be great if every single GLO chapter out there had a perfect relationship with their HQ, but as both those entities include humans that are capable of mistakes and emotions, it doesn't always work that way.

There are 4 groups involved in every chapter closure - the college chapter, the alumnae, the national office and the campus Greek system - and if you put all their viewpoints in a blender, perhaps you would come out with 100% accuracy of what happened.

ETA: this is speaking generally, not this chapter in particular.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I agree that these women are adults & that this is their fight, and probably didn't tell their parents everything, and that there's certainly some fwap fwapping. But to pooh-pooh all the parents' feelings, especially when many of them were probably paying the (not cheap) sorority dues, is just not realistic. Step out of thinking about it as a sorority member and think about it as a parent. Whether or not they have a legal right to feel that way, it's perfectly understandable that they do.

Why look at it as a parent? Yes, that sounds dismissive, but I'm serious. These are women (not girls) who took obligations to do certain things and not do other things. They took those obligations freely. Some knew when they took on the obligation that they were not paying for them, but where they get the money to participate is purely between themselves and the money-givers (presumably the parents). The parents are not members, did not take those obligations, and have no skin in the game.

It's not a "legal right to feel that way" -- it's recognizing that they have every right to feel whatever they do; they have no legal right to act on it.

[33girl]

That's pretty much what I said in the first sentence There seemed to be posts that were expressing incredulity that parents even had an emotion about it. I'm not sure why it would be surprising as we are living in the Helicopter Age.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That's pretty much what I said in the first sentence There seemed to be posts that were expressing incredulity that parents even had an emotion about it. I'm not sure why it would be surprising as we are living in the Helicopter Age.

I almost mentioned the helicopter age, then chose not to. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

And also the age of people thinking that the legal system exists to validate their feelings.

[TriDeltaSallie]

I really cannot believe that:

1. People actually think the members don't know why this happened.

2. Parents are involved.

I was in the meeting with the Executive Board at convention when the decision was made to close my own chapter (numbers, not risk management reasons). It is an experience I would never wish on anyone.

The thought that Tri Delta would close a chapter like IU on a whim without making the process exceedingly clear to the members over many months is ludicrous. Only someone with their head in the sand and in complete denial would think otherwise. For DDD to close down this chapter, it had to be bad and long-term.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I really cannot believe that:

1. People actually think the members don't know why this happened.

2. Parents are involved.

I was in the meeting with the Executive Board at convention when the decision was made to close my own chapter (numbers, not risk management reasons). It is an experience I would never wish on anyone.

The thought that Tri Delta would close a chapter like IU on a whim without making the process exceedingly clear to the members over many months is ludicrous. Only someone with their head in the sand and in complete denial would think otherwise. For DDD to close down this chapter, it had to be bad and long-term.

I agree entirely.

The question ultimately is: are the collegians holding back, making it seem like they did nothing wrong, so the parents are outraged "for" them... or have the parents gone rogue?

I think it's outrageous that the parents are taking this on and demanding answers, but at least I might understand it a little more if the collegians are shrugging their shoulders and playing dumb.

That being said...

Petition signing and lawyers? Get real.

[DeltaEmi88]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I really cannot believe that:

1. People actually think the members don't know why this happened.

2. Parents are involved.

I was in the meeting with the Executive Board at convention when the decision was made to close my own chapter (numbers, not risk management reasons). It is an experience I would never wish on anyone.

The thought that Tri Delta would close a chapter like IU on a whim without making the process exceedingly clear to the members over many months is ludicrous. Only someone with their head in the sand and in complete denial would think otherwise. For DDD to close down this chapter, it had to be bad and long-term.

Well put, sister!

Regarding the talk of whether or not alumnae should receive an answer regarding what happened from EO, there's nothing saying that alumnae have not been informed. However, this is chapter and organizational business, and details of what happened should not be necessarily spread around. As an alumna of a different chapter (and not a volunteer, etc), it's not my business regarding what lead to this chapter's closure. I trust that my organization took the proper and necessary steps regarding this chapter's closure.

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I really cannot believe that:

1. People actually think the members don't know why this happened.

2. Parents are involved.

I was in the meeting with the Executive Board at convention when the decision was made to close my own chapter (numbers, not risk management reasons). It is an experience I would never wish on anyone.

The thought that Tri Delta would close a chapter like IU on a whim without making the process exceedingly clear to the members over many months is ludicrous. Only someone with their head in the sand and in complete denial would think otherwise. For DDD to close down this chapter, it had to be bad and long-term.

As a member of Tri Delta, your remarks are well stated and incredibly spot on. And you're right - the young women in the chapter know [I]exactly[I] why their national took this step.