Pi Kappa Phi chapter at NC State suspended after "embarrassing, scary" book found

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'm truly glad you've had that experience, but I would not assume that is a universal experience.

And again, I'm not talking about a vast plot from the outside to bring the fraternity system down. I'm talking about the risk of the fraternity system bringing itself down, or at least injuring itself substantially.

I completely agree. Repeatedly shooting yourself in the foot will eventually result in permanent harm.

Keep digging that hole and fall right in.

And Kevin, I decline your characterization of me as wanting to harm fraternities. Not in the least. I want them to do some serious soul searching to see what they have become and where they are heading.

And no, I never saw anything like what I am seeing now back in the day. Never.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

And no, I never saw anything like what I am seeing now back in the day. Never.

Well, my mother was Greek back in the day... hazed quite a bit at Oklahoma State University. My father was Greek, hazed at OU... they didn't have to hide the racism because it was so institutionalized as part of their world. Blacks were not allowed to join their organizations because of national rules against it.

And the sort of crap my father did when pledging his house? That would never happen today. Totally insane stuff including kidnapping their pledge trainer, flying him in a personal aircraft to a remote location in the NW part of the state, taking all of his clothes but his underwear and handcuffing him to an oil pumpjack... or the potential arson (he's not sure of this) of another fraternity house.

Have some historical perspective about what our organizations used to be and what we have become today. Our chapters include men of all races, religions and sexual identifications, and yes, some alumni and some chapters have a problem with that... but we're making progress little by little.

You have to have a little perspective. If death by thousands of papercuts was going to happen, it'd have happened already. We're stronger than ever in terms of values and membership and money. I hope y'alls' national organizations responded to these incidents the same way mine did--with memos reminding chapters to implement programming which we already have in place.

But these reactionary threads are crazy. Yeah, condemn the bad behavior, but don't shit your pants every time an 18-20 year old kid does or says something stupid or you're gonna run out of drawers.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You have to have a little perspective. If death by thousands of papercuts was going to happen, it'd have happened already.

With all due respect, Kevin, you need some perspective, too. Like you said, the world has changed. The racism that once was out in the open because it was institutionalized isn't going to be tolerated as easily by the wider society now. Neither will the "boys will be boys" excuse —which is exactly what it is. (It's an odd excuse, too, for organizations that claim to be "values-based" organizations and that want their members to be thought of as "fraternity men.")

I hope y'alls' national organizations responded to these incidents the same way mine did--with memos reminding chapters to implement programming which we already have in place.

I would hope my national org would respond with a lot more than that. Memos? That's window dressing that does little to actually address problems.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

With all due respect, Kevin, you need some perspective, too. Like you said, the world has changed. The racism that once was out in the open because it was institutionalized isn't going to be tolerated as easily by the wider society now. Neither will the "boys will be boys" excuse —which is exactly what it is. (It's an odd excuse, too, for organizations that claim to be "values-based" organizations and that want their members to be thought of as "fraternity men.")

I would hope my national org would respond with a lot more than that. Memos? That's window dressing that does little to actually address problems.

All of this! Memos about fraternity programming clearly aren't working. And let's not all point fingers and say, "My organization is already above the curve and doing all it needs to do. It's working for us." None of us here can say that with 100% certainty, unless you know the inner workings of every single one of your chapters.

Making racist comments isn't ok. Taking pictures of naked women without their consent and posting them online isn't ok. When are we going to stop shrugging our shoulders and saying, "Eh, they're 18.. that's what college guys do?" When are we going to hold our members to a higher standard... ya know, the ones that are in our rituals and creeds, that we advertise as being the reason to join our organizations?