Universities Under Investigation Re: Handling Sexual Assault

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

No, a competent justice system balances the risk of innocent people being punished against the risk of letting the guilty go without consequences. Minimizing the chance that innocent people will be punished is simple...don't have a justice system at all.

Then Western cultures have, for the most part, operated without competent justice systems since at least the time of the Romans.

Originally Posted by honorgal

Blackstone's ratio:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer".

Or as Ben Franklin rephrased it: "That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved."

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If one more person types the phrase "false dichotomy" I am closing this thread. SydneyK started that phrase trend.

/not a moderator

False dicho . . .

. . . oh, never mind.

[DrPhil]

@ MysticCat

Originally Posted by honorgal

you ----------------------------------- the joke

[honorgal]

Judge: Duke University can't expel student accused of sexual misconduct

http://washingtonexaminer.com/judge-...rticle/2549279

[Low D Flat]

Now, THAT is going to be interesting. This was just a ruling on a preliminary injunction, which is a way of freezing matters until there is a decision on the merits. But it's going to be quite a monkey wrench in university actions if courts start controlling the internal processes by which schools expel students.

[honorgal]

The "fair and just process" that Duke claims it follows:

the accused student is consigned to an “advocate” who cannot speak in the hearing that will determine whether Duke brands him a rapist;

consent is vaguely defined, on grounds that “alcohol or other drugs can lower inhibitions and create an atmosphere of confusion over whether consent is freely and effectively given”;

a preponderance of evidence (50.01 percent) threshold is used;

the accused student cannot directly cross-examine his accuser;

the accused student only has a maximum of five days to examine the evidence that Duke has compiled against him, while he lacks the power to subpoena potentially exculpatory evidence from the accuser;

double jeopardy exists, in that the accuser can appeal a not-guilty finding;

Duke is allowed to use evidence from anonymous parties against the accused student.

Seems fair, no?

[MysticCat]

^^^ Is that a quote for the Duke process? If so, what are you quoting? If not, what's your source for the process you describe?

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

^^^ Is that a quote for the Duke process? If so, what are you quoting? If not, what's your source for the process you describe?

Distilled from
Plaintiffs court filing http://lincolnparishnewsonline.files...g-argument.pdf

Judge's injunction
http://lincolnparishnewsonline.files...prelim-inj.pdf

And Duke's website

https://studentaffairs.duke.edu/cond...ual-misconduct

[Kevin]

What a kangaroo court that looks to be.

[honorgal]

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...fense-n1849213

[MysticCat]

^^^ What's that a link to? It's helpful to provide some context to a link, and perhaps even some indication of why you think it may be worth taking a look at, if you want people to take a look at it.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by honorgal

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...fense-n1849213

Article headline:

Feminists Freak Out Over Miss Nevada Suggestion Women Learn Self Defense to Avoid Rape

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Article headline:

Feminists Freak Out Over Miss Nevada Suggestion Women Learn Self Defense to Avoid Rape

Thanks. So why do you think this article is worth reading? Because having read it, I thought is was completely lacking in competent journalism or persuasive presentation of an argument—it was nothing more than a castigation of the tweets of four supposed "leftist feminists" as a surrogate for castigating all "leftist feminism."

I guess the "Freak Out" in the hyperbolic headline should have clued me in; I didn't see any "freaking out" in the tweets.

And yes, I would have reacted the same way if the headline had been said "Right-Wing Mysogenists Freak Out."

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Thanks. So why do you think this article is worth reading? Because having read it, I thought is was completely lacking in competent journalism or persuasive presentation of an argument—it was nothing more than a castigation of the tweets of four supposed "leftist feminists" as a surrogate for castigating all "leftist feminism."

I guess the "Freak Out" in the hyperbolic headline should have clued me in; I didn't see any "freaking out" in the tweets.

And yes, I would have reacted the same way if the headline had been said "Right-Wing Mysogenists Freak Out."

There were a lot more tweets than four, they simply use those four as examples. And no, that doesn't implicate all "leftist feminists" any more than a tweet like "men should learn not to rape" implicates all men.

I found it worth reading simply because it's more evidence of the very unserious rape crisis hysteria that some leftist feminists have whipped up in the media.

The male victims of the "presumed guilty" crowd are starting to speak out.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...d-of-rape.html

And many college campus administrators aren't very happy about being caught in a no-win situation where no matter how sensitively they attend to the exquisite demands of feminist victim ideology, they can never be quite sensitive enough because, well, you know, MEN.

It will be interesting to see how the tension plays out in the coming years and the ensuing lawsuits.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

There were a lot more tweets than four, they simply use those four as examples.

Perhaps there were more; the article doesn't say, at least as far as I could tell with multiple readings. And none of the four examples were examples of "freaking out."

I found it worth reading simply because it's more evidence of the very unserious rape crisis hysteria that some leftist feminists have whipped up in the media.

It's not evidence of anything except what four people tweeted. It's a form of yellow journalism.

And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time taking arguments that are constantly punctuated with charges of "hysteria" by the "leftist feminists" seriously. If an argument has merit, it can be made—and can be made much more effectively—without constant resort to that kind of polemic.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Perhaps there were more; the article doesn't say, at least as far as I could tell with multiple readings. And none of the four examples were examples of "freaking out."

It's not evidence of anything except what four people tweeted. It's a form of yellow journalism.

And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time taking arguments that are constantly punctuated with charges of "hysteria" by the "leftist feminists" seriously. If an argument has merit, it can be made—and can be made much more effectively—without constant resort to that kind of polemic.

And I have a hard time taking seriously the argument (made repeatedly and more shrilly in the last few years by feminists, the media, politicians, etc and obviously bought fully by some of the folks here) that there is a "rape crisis" when practical suggestions that could prevent future "rapes" are dismissed as victim blaming and icky.

Instead, we get ridiculousness like this:

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2....udbPS5g1.dpbs

Does anybody else remember that SNL skit that resulted when Antioch College made their feeble attempt to regulate all physical encounters among their college students?

Originally Posted by MysticCat

If an argument has merit, it can be made—and can be made much more effectively—without constant resort to that kind of polemic.

This is quite ironic.