Alabama recruitment fall-out

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KDCat

"Completely integrate" = AA women rush and are bid in numbers representative of their percentage of the campus population. My previous point about that was that I think it's better to look at total percentages of AA women served by both NPC sororities and by historically AA sororities and multicultural sororities.

If that's truly what the resolution meant, that's really stupid. (I know you are the messenger not the author. :-)) That's along the same lines of people who thought A-A people wanted to integrate schools because they were super excited about going to school with white people.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

AZTheta: No need for that. Nothing groundbreaking and profound happening in this thread.

Well hell, I just put a heavy mix on, was ready for some entertainment while getting in the groove.

[DubaiSis]

The long and short of it is only time will tell. I personally believe that there was probably some (albeit probably not overwhelming) support for integration in the chapters over the last 10+ years. It wasn't until there was one spectacular candidate who really clearly, black and white (excusing the pun) deserved it and was not allowed in based entirely on race did it come to a head. It's time, and I think the chapters at Bama know this and will adapt on varying schedules. Putting on my psychic hat, next fall some (read: fewer than 10) black girls will rush and all of them will get bids if they complete the process, but not all of them will accept their bids, or they'll drop out before the process is complete. I'm gonna go with 6 will accept their bids. There will be no way for the chapters who offer the bids to NOT look like tokenism, because there simply weren't enough girls available to make it any different. The chapters will welcome them with open arms and there will be some awkward moments where some girl will say something stupid like "I don't see color" or "some of my best friends are black." But those girls will learn over time, and the black girls will adapt into this cloistered environment and will be generally happy with their decision, with moments of massive regret. Just like most sorority women. Now, let's see where I'm wrong, which will probably be all over the place.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

And it is NOT equivalent. Setting aside the fact that there are indeed white women in AKA, people in the historically oppressed group are entitled to spaces of their own. AKA is not obligated to integrate at any point in order for NPC groups to be a problem.

There are indeed AA women in NPC chapters. Just not at Alabama before now (other than one exception I recall from years ago).

There are indeed no white women in AKA at Alabama. I don't know how many (if any) have pursued intake over the years. Neither do you. I don't have any reason to think they have eliminated a candidate due to race.

However, it appears that according to their purpose, they are entitled not to integrate.

I don't really see any point in arguing the fairness of this. As far as I know the AKAs have a good relationship with the NPC sororities with whom they share sorority row.

I just pointed out that Miss Patterson's disparaging assumptions are discouraging and counter-productive to the integration changes she claims to champion. And that she is a member of a segregated sorority.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

And that she is a member of a segregated sorority.

I wouldn't want to join an NPC chapter in which members were so obtuse.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by KDCat

"Completely integrate" = AA women rush and are bid in numbers representative of their percentage of the campus population. My previous point about that was that I think it's better to look at total percentages of AA women served by both NPC sororities and by historically AA sororities and multicultural societies.

I don't anticipate that AA girls will participate in NPC recruitment at numbers approaching those, in the near future anyway. As it is, there are fewer than 100 (far fewer in spring) total members of the NPHC sororities on campus.

Originally Posted by KDCat

Please don't bag on AKA. When white students present themselves as PNMS and are being excluded from AKA because of their race, AKA can deal with that problem then. In this case, NPC sororities at Alabama excluded AA PNMs because of their skin color. That's not fair. That's not in compliance with our current membership selection standards. We need to get into compliance with our own standards.

NOT being in compliance with our own standards is what caused this problem. If one particular AA PNM talked some stuff about our chapters, we pretty much had it coming for not living up to the standards we have set for ourselves.

I wasn't criticizing AKA. I was criticizing Miss Patterson's disparaging assumptions.

On the other hand, you seem to be implying that your chapter at Bama excluded the 2 (?) AA PNMs because of their skin color. How do you know this? Were you privy to their membership selection?

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

The chapters will welcome them with open arms and there will be some awkward moments where some girl will say something stupid like "I don't see color" or "some of my best friends are black." But those girls will learn over time,

True -- I know sometimes people inadvertently say things to those with disabilities, for instance, that can be construed as rude or ignorant. This isn't necessarily ill-intended or a reason to ship them off to a reeducation camp, however. Most people wouldn't purposely offend.

[DubaiSis]

And that embarrassing moment when you find out that you said something totally stupid, insensitive or rude? Priceless where it comes to repeating said stupid comment.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

I didn't challenge AOII Angel's comment about Southern California, but I would agree with her that racial diversity may be more common in smaller, newer chapters (likely with far smaller recruitments).

Perhaps I'm just terrible at understanding your point, then, because this reads to me like a pretty clear rebuttal:

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

One point I have seen raised in this thread is that removing the possibility of exclusion based on race is not enough to integrate chapters (such as Alabama, for instance) - that more needs to be done to recruit AA members. This is a valid point considering the preparation necessary to participate in a recruitment of this nature.

I looked at the University of Maryland AOII facebook, and did not see AA members (and none among those in white dresses - are these new initiates?).

The Arizona State University Panhellenic Recruitment Guide doesn't reflect NPC chapter membership of AA women either:

http://asupan.com/wp-content/uploads...oklet20121.pdf

Just using those examples as you mentioned these states.

So I guess my question is -- what threshold of AA membership is considered "fully integrated" and sufficient to claim that a chapter is racially diverse?

Do these chapters actively recruit AA women? What have the chapters you advised done to address recruitment of potential members from diverse racial and socio-economic backgrounds?

We all might just be talking past one another at this point, anyway.

[pattyPNM123]

Not that this matters, but I just wanted to put my two cents in. I'm a PNM from the south rushing at Alabama next year and I'm African American. I live in an affluent area and all of my friends are white. That's how it's always been. All the girls in my class going to Alabama are all rushing NPC sororities, many of which are my friends. We all live in the same kind of neighborhoods, our parents work side by side in the same jobs and we've all gone to the same schools, been on the same cheerleading team and have really been together all our lives. No one even so much as looks twice at me because I'm black and I'm treated the same way they are treated. I'm interested in the same sort of things they are interested in, and I want to be in an NPC sorority. It's not hard for me to find letters of recommendations or information about recruitment because my friend's parents, parent's friends, teachers, activity leaders and older friends are all sorority alumni, some of which even attended Alabama. Whenever I've asked for a recommendation I've been welcomed with open arms and they are happy to write me one. I'm scared about recruitment next year, and whether or not (if I even am so lucky to be a part of one of the sororities at Alabama) I received a bid due to the fact they didn't want to seem "racist" or if they actually liked me will haunt me forever. But if the main problem is truly with the alumna and not with the actives, I will not be embarrassed or ashamed to participate in a sorority. It's what I want to do and if other people think I am a "sell out" that is their business. All I can hope is that the race scandal is overplayed, my hopeful sisters and the fellow fraternities will treat me as an equal and things will run smoother than they did last fall. This is what I hope for.

I hope I didn't overstep anything or offend anyone, I am trying to sound as humble as possible because I realize that being in any house at Alabama is better than not being in one at all. I realize being chosen to join one of these sororities is a privilege, and I can only hope I am given that privilege on the basis of my character. Once again I hope my post doesn't offend anyone.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by pattyPNM123

[redacted, because my intention is NOT to QFP]

If your post offends anyone, they are utterly tone deaf. I hope you have a great recruitment and an awesome time at Bama.

[als463]

Originally Posted by pattyPNM123

Not that this matters, but I just wanted to put my two cents in. I'm a PNM from the south rushing at Alabama next year and I'm African American. I live in an affluent area and all of my friends are white. That's how it's always been. All the girls in my class going to Alabama are all rushing NPC sororities, many of which are my friends. We all live in the same kind of neighborhoods, our parents work side by side in the same jobs and we've all gone to the same schools, been on the same cheerleading team and have really been together all our lives. No one even so much as looks twice at me because I'm black and I'm treated the same way they are treated. I'm interested in the same sort of things they are interested in, and I want to be in an NPC sorority. It's not hard for me to find letters of recommendations or information about recruitment because my friend's parents, parent's friends, teachers, activity leaders and older friends are all sorority alumni, some of which even attended Alabama. Whenever I've asked for a recommendation I've been welcomed with open arms and they are happy to write me one. I'm scared about recruitment next year, and whether or not (if I even am so lucky to be a part of one of the sororities at Alabama) I received a bid due to the fact they didn't want to seem "racist" or if they actually liked me will haunt me forever. But if the main problem is truly with the alumna and not with the actives, I will not be embarrassed or ashamed to participate in a sorority. It's what I want to do and if other people think I am a "sell out" that is their business. All I can hope is that the race scandal is overplayed, my hopeful sisters and the fellow fraternities will treat me as an equal and things will run smoother than they did last fall. This is what I hope for.

I hope I didn't overstep anything or offend anyone, I am trying to sound as humble as possible because I realize that being in any house at Alabama is better than not being in one at all. I realize being chosen to join one of these sororities is a privilege, and I can only hope I am given that privilege on the basis of my character. Once again I hope my post doesn't offend anyone.

With an attitude like that, any house would be blessed to call you a sister. I truly hope recruitment goes well for you. You have such a positive outlook and I love that you would be open to join any house.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Perhaps I'm just terrible at understanding your point, then, because this reads to me like a pretty clear rebuttal:

I may have been terrible at making it -- I didn't challenge her comment in regard to Southern California.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by pattyPNM123

I realize being chosen to join one of these sororities is a privilege, and I can only hope I am given that privilege on the basis of my character. Once again I hope my post doesn't offend anyone.

Nothing whatsoever offending about your post -- thanks for sharing your perspective. You have a great outlook!

All the best to you -- hope you enjoy the process and are hugging sisters on a lawn you love in August. :)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by pattyPNM123

I live in an affluent area and all of my friends are white. That's how it's always been. All the girls in my class going to Alabama are all rushing NPC sororities, many of which are my friends. We all live in the same kind of neighborhoods, our parents work side by side in the same jobs and we've all gone to the same schools, been on the same cheerleading team and have really been together all our lives.

Good luck and I sincerely hope you do well.

This part that I quoted are things that differentiate some racial and ethnic minorities from other racial and ethnic minorities. These things can potentially buffer some of the effects of race. If people can believe "you're just like me" then they are more likely to relate to you and accept you. I trust you won't be chosen as the token "Black member/friend who isn't TOO Black."