Wealthy Child Molester Gets Probation, Wouldn't Fare Well In Prison

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Oh, I'm sure you are firmly convinced you are almost never wrong.

How very close minded to assume that someone who is legally guilty is, um, guilty. Why, that's ridiculous.

I think I've explained it at this point. If you don't get it, that's on you.

He's legally guilty for sure. Did he actually do it? A guilty plea to a suspended sentence when facing multiple decades behind bars if he took it to trial isn't going to convince me he actually did it. Especially when the mom has a huge financial motive to coach the kid to accuse her father of molesting her.

I do appreciate you coming out and claiming that you have authoritatively deemed ALS incompetent - thank you for not subjecting us to any more weaselly "whether als was a terrible caseworker, I don't know" type subterfuge. Your open mindedness serves as an example to us all.

Frankly, anyone who still can't understand what I've been saying over and over has some serious reading comprehension issues. You haven't been there/done that. I have. Having successfully defended fathers accused of this very thing, from what is said in the article, it is difficult to tell whether it really happened.

I can tell you that a father molesting his own child is exceedingly rare. And that child being his first victim? Even more rare.

What's so hard to get? Even the prosecutor admitted that a conviction at trial wasn't a foregone conclusion. I suppose you know more about this case than the prosecutor?

[SWTXBelle]

Oh, I get it.
There's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension.

I don't know whether or not the convicted criminal in question is actually guilty: come to that, no one other than the criminal and the victim do. All I - or anyone - knows is the result of his trial.

The fact that you can't see - or admit - your bias, when it shows up in every post you make on this subject - speaks for itself.

Let me ask you this - does the issue of whether your client is guilty matter at all, or do you seek to mount the best defense of your client whether or not he/she committed the crime?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You haven't been there/done that. I have.

You want to poll the participants in this thread on how many of us are survivors of sexual violence?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

You want to poll the participants in this thread on how many of us are survivors of sexual violence?

I don't see how that's remotely relevant. Is it somehow offensive to a survivor of sexual violence to discuss the possibility of the innocence of someone even the prosecutor thought might not be convicted at trial?

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't see how that's remotely relevant. Is it somehow offensive to a survivor of sexual violence to discuss the possibility of the innocence of someone even the prosecutor thought might not be convicted at trial?

It is relevant because you keep tossing around the word "rare" in discussing child molestation, specifically in terms of father/child abuse. Would that it were "rare".

You also keep making unfounded assumptions on everyone who comments. You really don't know what our experience in/with the legal system is, the specifics of our educations, our credentials, and our understanding of the issue of child abuse and the potential for false accusations. (Some of us have to, on an on-going basis, receive training in recognizing and reporting child abuse - possibly even more than you, with your law degree. Imagine that. ) All you can do is tout your own correctness and everyone else's lack of a law degree and hence inability to logically engage in this discussion.

The fact that you can't recognize your own use of put downs and insults is astounding.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It is relevant because you keep tossing around the word "rare" in discussing child molestation, specifically in terms of father/child abuse. Would that it were "rare".

It's not common...therefore, rare.

You also keep making unfounded assumptions on everyone who comments. You really don't know what our experience in/with the legal system is, the specifics of our educations, our credentials, and our understanding of the issue of child abuse and the potential for false accusations. (Some of us have to, on an on-going basis, receive training in recognizing and reporting child abuse - possibly even more than you, with your law degree. Imagine that. ) All you can do is tout your own correctness and everyone else's lack of a law degree and hence inability to logically engage in this discussion.

No one so far has stated they have any experience in plea negotiations. What is your experience in plea negotiations in criminal court?

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's not common...therefore, rare.



No one so far has stated they have any experience in plea negotiations. What is your experience in plea negotiations in criminal court?

Rare is different than uncommon. Murder is (thankfully) uncommon, but I wouldn't say it is rare. Surely you understand the difference in both the connotative and denotative meaning of the words in question. Given your exemplary education I would expect a higher than seventh grade understanding of the subtle differences. (Please note - this is not an insult; as I teach seventh grade, I am merely pointing out that defining "rare" as merely "uncommon" is on-level with my seventh graders).

Were the issue only plea negotiations you might have a point.

It's not;you don't. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you do realize that but are simply choosing to ignore it in order to continue to stroke your ego. I could be wrong. It could be that you really do think this has all been about plea negotiations. If so, I'm sorry for giving you too much credit.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't see how that's remotely relevant. Is it somehow offensive to a survivor of sexual violence to discuss the possibility of the innocence of someone even the prosecutor thought might not be convicted at trial?

No. The point is simply that your lived experience does not trump the lived experiences of others. You may be the best-versed in the law, but that does not make you the only person who has been involved in this type of thing.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

No. The point is simply that your lived experience does not trump the lived experiences of others. You may be the best-versed in the law, but that does not make you the only person who has been involved in this type of thing.

I'm the only one who has commented in this thread who has ever been part of a plea negotiation, so I am the only person who has been involved in this type of thing.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm the only one who has commented in this thread who has ever been an attorney in a plea negotiation.

FYP.

Too bad Kevin is the only GC attorney commenting in this thread.

And I work closely with attorneys for a range of issues. While these attorneys discuss their perspectives and experiences they are quick not to go into much detail for their cases. They make general comments about specific cases, or more specific comments about general cases, but are more inclined to say "it is the (insert case) if you want to research the details on public record." To go into great detail about cases when discussing touchy topics can be construed as a version of name dropping and there is a fear of leisure talk resulting in accidentally divulging information that is not public record and providing legal opinions that are not public record.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

FYP.

AND WE HAVE A WINNER.

[als463]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think I've explained it at this point. If you don't get it, that's on you.

He's legally guilty for sure. Did he actually do it? A guilty plea to a suspended sentence when facing multiple decades behind bars if he took it to trial isn't going to convince me he actually did it. Especially when the mom has a huge financial motive to coach the kid to accuse her father of molesting her.



Frankly, anyone who still can't understand what I've been saying over and over has some serious reading comprehension issues. You haven't been there/done that. I have. Having successfully defended fathers accused of this very thing, from what is said in the article, it is difficult to tell whether it really happened.

I can tell you that a father molesting his own child is exceedingly rare. And that child being his first victim? Even more rare.

What's so hard to get? Even the prosecutor admitted that a conviction at trial wasn't a foregone conclusion. I suppose you know more about this case than the prosecutor?

So...now you're an attorney AND a therapist? Good to know! I also loved that you told me and SWTXBelle that we have poor reading comprehension skills yet, you ignore her statement about having training on child abuse and then go back to our lack of education in plea negotiations (because that's not what anyone here claims to have experience in other than you). I also wanted to echo what AZTheta mentioned about not feeling comfortable with an attorney who thinks he or she should go on an internet forum and just speak openly about cases whether or not they made it into the news. You are not the only person on here who has ever gone to law school or graduated from law school. There are a few attorneys on this site and they never talk about their cases--past or present. So, since you feel I am incompetent in whatever it is I do (since you don't know but, assume you do), I will call you incompetent and say I would never send a family member or friend to you. I wonder if the Oklahoma Bar Association is okay with your ethics.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by als463

So...now you're an attorney AND a therapist? Good to know! I also loved that you told me and SWTXBelle that we have poor reading comprehension skills yet, you ignore her statement about having training on child abuse and then go back to our lack of education in plea negotiations (because that's not what anyone here claims to have experience in other than you). I also wanted to echo what AZTheta mentioned about not feeling comfortable with an attorney who thinks he or she should go on an internet forum and just speak openly about cases whether or not they made it into the news. You are not the only person on here who has ever gone to law school or graduated from law school. There are a few attorneys on this site and they never talk about their cases--past or present. So, since you feel I am incompetent in whatever it is I do (since you don't know but, assume you do), I will call you incompetent and say I would never send a family member or friend to you. I wonder if the Oklahoma Bar Association is okay with your ethics.

Feel free to report me for discussing something which is public record. The case I linked wasn't in the news. Making the news isn't what is required for something to be of public record. Criminal pleas are not private matters.

You are way out of your league talking about legal ethics. Just stop.