Hobby Lobby

[AGDee]

That's what I mean. Remove it from employer control and let us choose our own completely.

I'm really surprised they won't pay with such a compelling argument. My day to day (ok, one bi-weekly injection) medication costs $2600 a month so without insurance, I wouldn't be able to take it at all.

[DrPhil]

Some companies allow employees to choose the type of insurance coverage or opt out of company sponsored insurance.

But there are issues with having the ability to opt out. It sometimes benefits the company and employees to have the consistency of the company sponsored insurance. Also, some employees who opt out are reminded of why they wanted an employer that provides insurance in the first place. The average employee would struggle if they had to get their own insurance.

[Tulip86]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Remove it from employer control and let us choose our own completely.

This is what they did in the Netherlands a while ago, just after I moved here first. They went from a system where the employer provides health insurance, to a system where the individual is responsible for selecting their insurance, and paying for it. Health insurance is mandatory for every citizen and if you have a lower income, you get a compensation so it becomes affordable. The compensation is provided by the government.

They all cost about the same, and get more expensive if you want a lot of coverage, but you can strip it down to the bare necessities. For example you chuck out pre-natal care, opticians, orthodontic care and homeopathy, but you have to be insured for the dentist, medical emergencies, hospital stay, any illness (mental and physical) and most medications. Children under 18 are insured for free.

I'm not saying it will work in the US, and it is by no means perfect, but it does allow you to customize insurance to your needs and employers don't have any influence on which insurance you pick.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

I'm not saying it will work in the US, and it is by no means perfect, but it does allow you to customize insurance to your needs and employers don't have any influence on which insurance you pick.

It most likely wouldn't work in the US given the history of health care, insurance, and stratification. There's a reason many Americans prefer insurance through an employer rather than individual insurance and that includes cost and having a liaison. Plus, government subsidized insurance for the poor would be viewed as an unworthy handout worse than TANF, The Affordable Care Act, and the medical/health organizations that struggle to service underserved populations.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

Health insurance is mandatory for every citizen and if you have a lower income, you get a compensation so it becomes affordable. The compensation is provided by the government.

They all cost about the same, and get more expensive if you want a lot of coverage, but you can strip it down to the bare necessities. For example you chuck out pre-natal care, opticians, orthodontic care and homeopathy, but you have to be insured for the dentist, medical emergencies, hospital stay, any illness (mental and physical) and most medications. Children under 18 are insured for free.

I'm not saying it will work in the US, and it is by no means perfect, but it does allow you to customize insurance to your needs and employers don't have any influence on which insurance you pick.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It most likely wouldn't work in the US given the history of health care, insurance, and stratification. There's a reason many Americans prefer insurance through an employer rather than individual insurance and that includes cost and having a liaison. Plus, government subsidized insurance for the poor would be viewed as an unworthy handout worse than TANF, The Affordable Care Act, and the medical/health organizations that struggle to service underserved populations.

It sounds to me like most people who oppose universal health care argue it based on cost, personal freedoms, and/or a belief that the government will screw up anything it gets it's hands on.

I was doing a lot of campaign work in 2012 in Northern Virginia, where we'd get lots of tourists from other parts of the U.S. and the conservative ones loved to argue with me. All of the arguments I heard were a combination of those three things above.

I like the Dutch example. I think the only way a semi-universal healthcare system will work in our country is if you allow people to upgrade their coverage if they can afford it. Otherwise the roadblock will be people complaining they have to wait 184 months to get a triple bypass they needed yesterday (my disagreements with those kinds of arguments will be saved for another time).