Arizona State University - TKE

[DrPhil]

LOL. With all due love and respect, what in the shit are you all typing about? The larger issue isn't ASU Greek Life. The larger issue is racialized dumbassness. Hiding this behind Greekdom is why stuff like this keeps happening.

Anderson Cooper had this on his Ridiculist last night. I don't agree with his constant use of "frat" and his perceived tone regarding Greekdom but I can get over it for the larger point.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. With all due love and respect, what in the shit are you all typing about? The larger issue isn't ASU Greek Life. The larger issue is racialized dumbassness. Hiding this behind Greekdom is why stuff like this keeps happening.

Anderson Cooper had this on his Ridiculist last night. I don't agree with his constant use of "frat" and his perceived tone regarding Greekdom but I can get over it for the larger point.

This is one symptom of a much larger problem here. It's cultural and dressing up in racially offensive dress and posting it on Facebook is not the only thing happening. A kid died of alcohol poisoning not too long ago. This is just an example of an out of control culture.

Some national organizations, TKE, in particular, at least in my experience take a pretty hands-off approach to out-of-control chapters. As to my organization, we shut down our chapter there in April of 2012, probably after noting the cultural issues, with plans to reopen in 2016.

I've seen first-hand what good can come from shutting down a chapter and rebuilding it with a more values-based approach. As an organization, we've had a lot of success with that.

But to say this is just a racial thing isn't accurate. It's bigger than that.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

But to say this is just a racial thing isn't accurate. It's bigger than that.

I disagree. Greek Life isn't bigger than race. Ever.**
Putting the "Greek Life bandaid" on this will keep these parties happening if not at ASU then at other campuses. People will just decrease posting photos on social media.

The idiots at ASU have "Greek Life problems". But if these parties were primarily about "Greek Life problems" then they could have thought of millions of other dumbass things to do in the name of "Greek Life problems."

**If this story was about a fraternity that was overtly sexist and misogynist towards women people would be mostly discussing the larger dynamic of sexism and misogyny. Sure, that fraternity may have "Greek Life problems" but people would be wondering why in the hell these fraternity members chose to express their "Greek Life problems" in this particular manner. It would be indicative of a larger culture of sexism and misogyny. It is unfortunate that people can grasp this when discussing other social dynamics except race and ethnicity.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I disagree. Greek Life isn't bigger than race. Ever.**
Putting the "Greek Life bandaid" on this will keep these parties happening if not at ASU then at other campuses. People will just decrease posting photos on social media.

You're entitled to your opinion. Agree to disagree.

The idiots at ASU have "Greek Life problems". But if these parties were primarily about "Greek Life problems" then they could have thought of millions of other dumbass things to do in the name of "Greek Life problems."

Well the race thing is one of many problems stemming from a larger issue--that these kids come from mostly privileged backgrounds where this sort of thing is acceptable. In many cases, this goes beyond even Greek Life to being a cultural issue.. and not a new one by any stretch.

If this story was about a fraternity that was overtly sexist and misogynist towards women people would be mostly discussing the larger dynamic of sexism and misogyny. Sure, that fraternity may have "Greek Life problems" but people would be wondering why in the hell these fraternity members chose to express their "Greek Life problems" in this particular manner. It would be indicative of a larger culture of sexism and misogyny. It is unfortunate that people can grasp this when discussing other social dynamics except race and ethnicity.[/size]

There are overtly sexist party themes everywhere too and probably a lot more accepted. And wow this is being blown out of proportion. Boycotts? calls to expel students? Yikes. I actually find that sort of reaction more offensive than any of those photographs.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well the race thing is one of many problems stemming from a larger issue--that these kids come from mostly privileged backgrounds where this sort of thing is acceptable. In many cases, this goes beyond even Greek Life to being a cultural issue...

Do you realize you are saying the same thing that I am saying? You are simply calling it a "larger cultural issue" (you now are using "culture" to mean something larger than Greekdom--that's good). It is R-A-C-E. Social class is highly correlated with R-A-C-E. White college students from mostly privileged backgrounds who mock racial and ethnic minorities are doing it based on R-A-C-E. Social class and privileged background vary by R-A-C-E. After all, those idiots at ASU weren't mocking their fellow white people. You can keep calling it "culture" if you choose (white people tend to play word games because it keeps the warm and fuzzy going) but that does not stop it from being R-A-C-E.

Now that we've got that ironed out, I'm glad you were honest about what "culture" means in this instance and stopped playing the "Greek Life problems" game.