Cal Poly - SLO: Questionable Party Theme – Investigation

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ebdelt

In no way am I blaming or putting this solely on any sorority members. I don't think my posted indicated that. I completely agree the men should be the one's held accountable for the misogyny. My point is if women attend dressed as "nava-ho's", they are enabling (which is different then blaming or being at fault) these guys to keep throwing events with trashy themes. Go hang out with a different fraternity who is more respectful toward women.

While I think your point is a valid one, "enabling" may not be the best choice of words, given its meaning in addiction contexts. That could lead to some confusion.

The point is, they are participating and tacitly encouraging in the stupid.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

While I think your point is a valid one, "enabling" may not be the best choice of words, given its meaning in addiction contexts. That could lead to some confusion.

The point is, they are participating and tacitly encouraging in the stupid.

Tacitly? More like directly participating and being equally at fault for the stupid. And a lot of alumni of these groups are just as guilty for these things happening. Many of these parties, e.g., pimps and hos, etc., have been going on for years and right or wrong (okay, wrong), we're just now really clamping down.

At my school, it wasn't until last year (or maybe a couple or more years ago, I forget exactly when) that we started having to submit paperwork about our social events which contained warnings that racial stereotypes, gender stereotype themes were verboten.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The point is, they are participating and tacitly encouraging in the stupid.

Right, but if young women are brought up in a misogynist culture, you can't be surprised that they deal with internalized misogyny. How do you REALLY think the men would respond if a group of women said "we're offended, we're not coming"? You think the guys would change the theme, or you think the guys would tell the women they were being uptight, it's just a harmless joke, etc.?

And, as I said upthread, it doesn't even BEGIN to touch on the race issues, here.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tacitly? More like directly participating and being equally at fault for the stupid.

Well, I said participating and tacitly encouraging—by not declining to participate.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Right, but if young women are brought up in a misogynist culture, you can't be surprised that they deal with internalized misogyny. How do you REALLY think the men would respond if a group of women said "we're offended, we're not coming"? You think the guys would change the theme, or you think the guys would tell the women they were being uptight, it's just a harmless joke, etc.?

And, as I said upthread, it doesn't even BEGIN to touch on the race issues, here.

No it doesn't touch on the racial issues at all, which are huge. And though I see your point, I just don't think I can go but so far with it. Anyone who participates in parties like this gets to share the blame.

As for how the men would respond, some would say lighten up, it's just a joke, and some would get the message. But as far as I'm concerned, it's not even really about trying to get the guys to change their ways. It's about refusing to participate in something that's demeaning, bigoted and tasteless.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Well, I said participating and tacitly encouraging—by not declining to participate.

No it doesn't touch on the racial issues at all, which are huge. And though I see your point, I just don't think I can go but so far with it. Anyone who participates in parties like this gets to share the blame.

As for how the men would respond, some would say lighten up, it's just a joke, and some would get the message. But as far as I'm concerned, it's not even really about trying to get the guys to change their ways. It's about refusing to participate in something that's demeaning, bigoted and tasteless.

Yes, it's called internalized misogyny, but really, my problem is those suggesting that the women are EQUALLY at fault or that the women could just stop it. Could they take steps against it? Sure. Historically, pretty much the only way a marginalized group has ever gotten more power has been to demand it. I'm just saying that "the women go along with it" isn't anything CLOSE to an excuse for men acting like assholes, nor does it mean they have an equal share in the problem.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I don't know how they plan mixers these days, but in my day, the two social chairs would discuss the theme, agree on something, and the social chair would bring it to chapter for a vote. The women had a ton of control over what kind of party it would be.

I did wonder if that was the case here.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Yes, it's called internalized misogyny, but really, my problem is those suggesting that the women are EQUALLY at fault or that the women could just stop it. Could they take steps against it? Sure. Historically, pretty much the only way a marginalized group has ever gotten more power has been to demand it. I'm just saying that "the women go along with it" isn't anything CLOSE to an excuse for men acting like assholes, nor does it mean they have an equal share in the problem.

I wouldn't suggest that "the women go along with it" is ever an excuse for the bad behavior these guys. But to me, those who participate without questioning are only slightly less at fault than those who do the planning.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I wouldn't suggest that "the women go along with it" is ever an excuse for the bad behavior these guys. But to me, those who participate without questioning are only slightly less at fault than those who do the planning.

Everyone who attended this party and promoted it is EQUALLY at fault. If someone plans a party that I find offensive, I won't attend. If I do, it means I'm OK with it.

I mean, would you (the general you) argue that if a group held a KKK rally, and I attended and donned a white hood, that I wasn't as racist as the people who planned it?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Everyone who attended this party and promoted it is EQUALLY at fault. If someone plans a party that I find offensive, I won't attend. If I do, it means I'm OK with it.

I mean, would you (the general you) argue that if a group held a KKK rally, and I attended and donned a white hood, that I wasn't as racist as the people who planned it?

Are you a person of color? Because if not, this is a false equivalence.