Greek letters / spelling out letters

[ChioLu]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

My daughter said she wasn't allowed to use the Pi Beta Phi Greek letter tote bag she received from her rec writer until she was initiated. She could only wear items that had Pi Beta Phi spelled out. She also has a FIJI-Chi Omega fundraiser shirt in her now-extensive Greek event shirt collection.

We don't have a letters rule...the only stipulation is that only initiated members can wear anything with our crest on it.

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

Chi Omega (also) can put letters on a shirt which non-members can wear, but no one except members can wear the crest.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

Chi Omega (also) can put letters on a shirt which non-members can wear, but no one except members can wear the crest.

Wait...what's the difference in letting a NM wear a shirt with letters but not one with the crest that makes one hazing and one not?

This is one of those cases of "it's hazing!" that muddies the water of what actual hazing is. IMHO.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

It's not called "hazing" by my fraternity. It's mandated in our national bylaws. Some orgs may consider it hazing, but many other orgs do not. Distinctions in what one group of members can do as opposed to another group is not the definition of hazing. If anything, it is just a bright line that some groups have adopted to try and make sure no one gets anywhere near hazing.

Serious Question: Do you allow New Members to wear the badge instead of a new member pin prior to initiation? Because if you don't, it seems like that would also be hazing if the criterion is singling out what one group of members can do and another group of members can't.

Originally Posted by shirley1929

This is one of those cases of "it's hazing!" that muddies the water of what actual hazing is. IMHO.

Absolutely.

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

I'm pretty sure this varies? I know Theta Phi considers it hazing, but I thought I'd heard of at least one NPC org that had a national rule about only initiated sisters wearing letters. New members don't know what they mean, so why should they wear them? I see both sides of the issue.

Edit to add:

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Wait...what's the difference in letting a NM wear a shirt with letters but not one with the crest that makes one hazing and one not?

ChioLu said "members", not "initiated sisters". I think she means that you could give your dad a shirt with letters on it, but not one with the crest--that's only for members, be they new or initiated. Correct?

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

ChioLu said "members", not "initiated sisters". I think she means that you could give your dad a shirt with letters on it, but not one with the crest--that's only for members, be they new or initiated. Correct?

Ok, that makes a little more sense, I guess?

[honeychile]

Alpha Delta Pi's policy is the same as Chi Omega's. Our use of the crest is for members only, and should never, ever appear on glassware made for alcoholic beverages. That said, it happens. That said, it upsets me when I see the crest on shot glasses etc!

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

Chi Omega (also) can put letters on a shirt which non-members can wear, but no one except members can wear the crest.

It might be considered hazing in your organization, but blanket statements are dangerous to make. And realistically, all organizations makes distinctions between different classes of members.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by ChioLu

Not allowing your New Members to wear letters until being initiated is (now) called HAZING. It singles out what 1 group of members can do, or cannot do.

Gamma Phi Beta agrees with this position. In the New Member Education Manual, it states, under the heading Practices Considered Hazing:

"Some activities and expectations which are considered to be hazing:

• Preventing new members from wearing Gamma Phi Beta letters"

(yes, it is the first bullet)

I would say that our definition of hazing falls on the strict end of the spectrum, but I think that's a good idea. That said, the Greek letters vs. spelled out words rule might have links to initiation ritual/meaning for some groups, and I respect that.

[33girl]

We had Greek Week shirts with all the fraternities' and sororities' (around 20 groups total) letters on them. No one thought twice about it. Crests would have been another story.

I have never had a problem with our pledges wearing letters before initiation...but our letters correspond to an open motto, readable by anyone who looks at our crest. I would never, ever, ever presume to tell another group they should do the same, as I have no clue what their letters mean or whether it works the same way ours does.

Finally, regardless of what your national HQ says, compelling new members to wear letters may ALSO be hazing, if it sets them apart from the general campus norms, cultures and traditions.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

I'm pretty sure this varies? I know Theta Phi considers it hazing, but I thought I'd heard of at least one NPC org that had a national rule about only initiated sisters wearing letters. New members don't know what they mean, so why should they wear them? I see both sides of the issue.

I believe it's Kappa Alpha Theta.. but please, someone correct me if I'm wrong!

Originally Posted by honeychile

Alpha Delta Pi's policy is the same as Chi Omega's. Our use of the crest is for members only, and should never, ever appear on glassware made for alcoholic beverages. That said, it happens. That said, it upsets me when I see the crest on shot glasses etc!

Yes!

This is the same for AST on both accounts. And our coat-of-arms is only for initiated sisters to wear (which may be what you meant by "members" in your statement?)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I believe it's Kappa Alpha Theta.. but please, someone correct me if I'm wrong!

I think it's true of both Theta and Pi Phi. Maybe others as well.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I believe it's Kappa Alpha Theta.. but please, someone correct me if I'm wrong!

Yes, only initiated members may wear the letters.

However, on my campus, we were a little more lax with party shirts, philanthropy shirts, etc. For example, Derby Day shirts come to mind. Three** of the ten groups on our campus required initiation to wear letters, however, on the Derby Day shirts every year all 10 groups were listed by their letters and no one got worked up about it. Date party shirts could be either way- shortened nicknames, or small letters, particularly on the front pocket.

This distinction was partly because those shirts were worn by the masses, whereas stitched letters were solely worn by members (new and initiated) of a specific group. Somehow we never considered the teeny letters on the front pocket or in the long list of sororities as truly "wearing the letters."

As said above- campus culture variations and lots of people interpreting things the way they see fit.

**At the time, on my campus, the other two were Pi Phi and ChiO. I guess either Chi-O's policy has changed or our campus applied their own rules? As far as I know, Pi Phi still holds out until initiation.

[TSteven]

Add Sigma Chi, and I believe Alpha Epsilon Phi as well, to the list of GLOs where only initiated members may wear Greek letters. I would also add that I’ve seen many a Sigma Chi Derby Day shirt that includes (Sigma Chi) letters on them and I don’t think it is a concern by IHQ.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Add Sigma Chi, and I believe Alpha Epsilon Phi as well, to the list of GLOs where only initiated members may wear Greek letters.

You are correct - only initiated sisters of Alpha Epsilon Phi may wear the Greek letters. New members and non-members can wear items with "AEPhi" or "Alpha Epsilon Phi" fully spelled out, but not with the Greek letter phi.