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[33girl]

IMO, you can read a Bible verse and think "wow, that's an awesome thing to say" without believing in God. Jesus Christ is one of our exemplars, but so is Hermes. We don't require you to worship either one, we just think that some of their qualities are admirable.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

A person, and especially an 18-year-old, is in quite a dilemma if they've gone through the whole ceremony and a whole pledging period and then they are surprised by a request to (let's say) swear on a Bible, or make an oath in Jesus's name.

Well, that's when talking to proposed initiates (neophytes, pledges, or whatever anyone else's term is) prior to initiation is important. Swearing on a religious book, for example, doesn't necessarily men you're swearing to that religion. Sometimes there's just something in there like a pink catsuit reference that's really important (see 33girl's response below).

Originally Posted by 33girl

IMO, you can read a Bible verse and think "wow, that's an awesome thing to say" without believing in God.

^^ This!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Well, that's when talking to proposed initiates (neophytes, pledges, or whatever anyone else's term is) prior to initiation is important. Swearing on a religious book, for example, doesn't necessarily men you're swearing to that religion.

But surely you understand why that makes some people uncomfortable?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Swearing on a religious book, for example, doesn't necessarily men you're swearing to that religion.

Actually, while many today surely see it as just an old-fashioned practice or just "how we do things," that is pretty close to what it means.

To swear is to make an oath, and an oath by definition is an appeal to a deity or something else that one considers sacred (one's honor, one's grandmother's grave, "all that is holy") as a witness or testament to the truth of what one is saying or to the binding nature of what one is promising. The meaning of placing one's hand on a sacred text is to invoke symbolically the deity/ies of whom that text speaks to witness the oath.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Actually, while many today surely see it as just an old-fashioned practice or just "how we do things," that is pretty close to what it means.

To swear is to make an oath, and an oath by definition is an appeal to a deity or something else that one considers sacred (one's honor, one's grandmother's grave, "all that is holy") as a witness or testament to the truth of what one is saying or to the binding nature of what one is promising. The meaning of placing one's hand on a sacred text is to invoke symbolically the deity/ies of whom that text speaks to witness the oath.

Exactly, Lionel de Rothschild, the first Jew elected to the Parliament of Great Britiain was refused to be seated (and re-elected anyway) because he refused to take the oath and the Christian Bible and using the standard form of the oath which was Christian Oath, this went on through 4 parliaments...