Why are recs absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others?

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

As an active in a non-SEC school, recs meant absolutely nothing to me. Sure, we knew if a girl had a rec, but I cared more about if that PNM was going to fit in with our chapter than if they had a rec. A rec doesn't tell me anything about that girl's personality, her likes/dislikes/desires in a chapter, or what she stands for as a person. Those are things that mattered most to me as an active, and I felt I could only find out through conversation, not on a piece of paper.

This is EXACTLY what a good rec contains. it is a written recommendation to join the group, AND also attempts at broadening the picture of the pnm for the actives. The standard rush application provides the facts - the rec fills in the blanks for the chapter. Anecdotal information, intangibles, personality traits, etc are all conveyed in a good rec because (hopefully) the alum is doing the early leg work for you. (not always, obviously, but a lot of the time)

And those of you from non competitive recruitments who keep telling us you didn't know what a rec was - we get it. But do not turn your nose up at the process simply because you didn't experience it. Neither the "SEC" nor the others are worse for it. It simply IS part of recruitment in this region, and the chapters find a way to make it work for them.

And one final thought - This very rec issue is also a product of the adult alumnae environment in the South. ( I am using the South loosely but am obviously talking about competitive recruitments wherever) Sorority is important in the adult world in this region. People do not graduate and never think about Kappa again. They join the alumnae club, and usually right away. So, it would stand to reason that a role for alumnae during recruitment would be strong and an integral part of the process.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

And those of you from non competitive recruitments who keep telling us you didn't know what a rec was - we get it. But do not turn your nose up at the process simply because you didn't experience it. Neither the "SEC" nor the others are worse for it. It simply IS part of recruitment in this region, and the chapters find a way to make it work for them.

Who exactly is turning their nose up at the process? As far as I can tell, we're all asking questions and trying to understand why they're necessary and what they do to assist in the recruitment process.

And those that have provided their opinion that they should be eliminated seem to have had some experience with them.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Who exactly is turning their nose up at the process? As far as I can tell, we're all asking questions and trying to understand why they're necessary and what they do to assist in the recruitment process.

And those that have provided their opinion that they should be eliminated seem to have had some experience with them.

Plenty of people have posted on GC in other threads, mostly PNMs, "I can't find recs and therefore I won't," or "They aren't common at my school so I won't bother." That's fine. I take issue with sorority members stating that their chapter wouldn't know what to do with a rec if they got one, contending they have no value, and theorizing that a rec could hurt a PNM at such a school where they are not common.

You know what would help? If each sorority providing training materials to all alumnae about recommendations, which includes a discussion on their purpose, how to write a good one, and how the recommendation is considered in membership selection. I think that having a "Recommendation Writing Workshop" as an Alumnae Association workshop would be a tremendous help to alumnae and the chapters who receive recommendations.

It would also help for the collegians to understand the value their sorority places on recs as it pertains to membership selection. I personally did not understand the value of a rec to my sorority until I was a recent graduate and assisted the recruitment information manager behind the scenes. When I was in college, recs were not the norm yet (that has changed a lot at UCF) and it was a big deal when someone with a rec came through! But none of us understood the value; just that a revered alumna had recommended the young lady and that we should take that seriously before we cut her out of respect to the alumna. Then again, we also had a sorority director who acted as a pseudo adviser at our recruitment and who would be very very firm with us about our legacies and rec girls. Not all schools/chapters are like that.

During college, you learn HOW to rush someone and the basics of member selection. You don't necessarily learn how all those moving parts-- the application, the legacy status, the recs, the interviews, the grades, the release figures-- all come together to determine who stays and who gets cut. Or if you do, it goes over your head or we might not be having this conversation. That sort of education would be helpful to collegians because they would take that knowledge with them as alumnae who end up writing recs.

I recall one chapter of my sorority who threw recs out when they received them because they didn't know what to do with them until they got a recruitment adviser who trained them. I was flabbergasted at this because the officers receive training at Districts and have sorority handbooks to guide them in doing their job, but human error or willful ignorance is as human error/wilful ignorance does. In the case of that chapter, the rec didn't help or hurt. The chapter still took the girls they wanted.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

This is EXACTLY what a good rec contains. it is a written recommendation to join the group, AND also attempts at broadening the picture of the pnm for the actives. The standard rush application provides the facts - the rec fills in the blanks for the chapter. Anecdotal information, intangibles, personality traits, etc are all conveyed in a good rec because (hopefully) the alum is doing the early leg work for you. (not always, obviously, but a lot of the time)

This section of the quote I copied was in reply to a statement that IUHoosiergirl88 made about looking for girls who fit into the chapter. My question would be how does an alumna know if a particular woman fits into a chapter that's 1000 miles away? I know that within my own GLO, I have first hand knowledge of at least 5 chapters. Each of the 5 chapters varies greatly in size and culture. Knowing this, I don't know if a student I was writing a rec for would be a good fit for the chapter. I would most definitely write a good rec for her. I know that I write good recommendations, my college/scholarship letters are very well done and organizations often tell the candidate how strong the letter was. But in the end does Polly Pledge fit into that chapter? If the women in the chapter don't think so, I am not going to be one of those alums who gets her nose out of joint if they don't pledge her. Sometimes the women have recs but are not just good fits for the chapter.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

This section of the quote I copied was in reply to a statement that IUHoosiergirl88 made about looking for girls who fit into the chapter. My question would be how does an alumna know if a particular woman fits into a chapter that's 1000 miles away? I know that within my own GLO, I have first hand knowledge of at least 5 chapters. Each of the 5 chapters varies greatly in size and culture. Knowing this, I don't know if a student I was writing a rec for would be a good fit for the chapter. I would most definitely write a good rec for her. I know that I write good recommendations, my college/scholarship letters are very well done and organizations often tell the candidate how strong the letter was. But in the end does Polly Pledge fit into that chapter? If the women in the chapter don't think so, I am not going to be one of those alums who gets her nose out of joint if they don't pledge her. Sometimes the women have recs but are not just good fits for the chapter.

You make a good point but we are writing a rec for a girl we think would fit our GLO, not a specific chapter. If she is meets the GLO's criteria for membership at State U, then she meets it for Small Private U, too.

And, of course, you shouldn't get your nose out of joint if they don't take her. Ultimately, this is the chapter's decison. All you did was point out a good candidate for membership. They will know if she fits into their dynamic or not.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

You make a good point but we are writing a rec for a girl we think would fit our GLO, not a specific chapter. If she is meets the GLO's criteria for membership at State U, then she meets it for Small Private U, too.

And, of course, you shouldn't get your nose out of joint if they don't take her. Ultimately, this is the chapter's decison. All you did was point out a good candidate for membership. They will know if she fits into their dynamic or not.

I think this is what I take issue with...I really don't believe that there is that much difference between a good candidate for Kappa and a good candidate for DPhiE and a good candidate for Phi Mu, and so on.

Now, obviously I am not privy to MS, so maybe that's not the case, and each group values something different, but my general sense is that the vast, vast majority of women who participate in FR meet the requirements of all NPC groups, save for the obvious grade risks and criminal pasts.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think this is what I take issue with...I really don't believe that there is that much difference between a good candidate for Kappa and a good candidate for DPhiE and a good candidate for Phi Mu, and so on.

Now, obviously I am not privy to MS, so maybe that's not the case, and each group values something different, but my general sense is that the vast, vast majority of women who participate in FR meet the requirements of all NPC groups, save for the obvious grade risks and criminal pasts.

I think this is well said. We wouldn't all be fighting over the same PNMs if a good candidate for one isn't also a good candidate for others. I think that we, as NPCers have far more in common than differences.

And I'd still like to hear from some more actives. Where's Old Row?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I have been told that this is necessary to maintain single sex status, according to federal requirements and/or guidelines.

If so, then anyone insisting that their sorority or chapter doesn't "do" recs or doesn't have to consider them may be a) not following the requirements of their group b)jeopardizing the group's single sex status.

Maybe I have this wrong?

But if that were the case, then most if not all GLOs outside the NPC may be jeopardizing their single-sex status. Obviously, I don't fully know the policies of any groups but my own, but I've never heard of anything like NPC-style recs outside of NPC sororities. The idea that not using recs like that could jeopardize single-sex status sounds like post hoc rationalization.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

But asking someone else what they have heard isn't really verification. And you could also be asking someone (even an alum) who doesn't like the PNM's mom, or whose daughter wasn't invited to the PNM's 16th birthday bash. Some moms (yes, even alums) can be a little less than objective where girls their daughter's age are concerned -- even a little vengeful.

It's hard to tell sometimes where the line between vouching for ends and meddling in begins.

Just food for thought -- when PNMs ask around similarly regarding the reputation of a chapter, they are thought to be soliciting tent talk.

Perhaps the point is to figure out whether the PNM is smart enough to realize who is in her corner/really likes her, and who is just faking it for social matters? Don't know, just a thought.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Hm...this brings up something interesting...pledge periods used to be a lot longer, and, I *think*, in most orgs, it used to be easier to break a pledge if something came out about the woman that made her unfit for membership. I don't really know where I am going with this, except that it seems like perhaps the "no rec" has possibly gotten more important?

Shorter/easier pledge periods DEFINITELY have a lot to do with it. In effect, it seems like the work you do getting recs, preparing for rush etc is the work you used to do during pledging.

Originally Posted by adpiucf

I take issue with sorority members stating that their chapter wouldn't know what to do with a rec if they got one, contending they have no value, and theorizing that a rec could hurt a PNM at such a school where they are not common.
didn't help or hurt.

I'm pretty sure it was violetpretty who said at her school recs weren't looked on favorably because they were seen as meddling by alums (usually not from UMD) who didn't know anything about the school or the makeup of the chapter. Most other places, no matter how laid back the rush, I doubt it would HURT, unless the girl in question turned out to be someone on the more negative side of on the fence about her. We only got a handful that I can remember. One rec from Alum of Kansas School who moved to PA? Fine. If A of KS would have had 10 of her chapter sisters write recs and send letters, the response probably would have been "forget that, this girl must think we owe her something, no I don't think so."

Originally Posted by irishpipes

Very recently a GC poster (maybe 33girl?) posted that her NPC doesn't even have a rec form. So, I would say it is very possible that some nationals don't value recs - they utilize other methods in their MS.

This most definitely was NOT me. If you could edit your post that would be awesome.