Sororities and Feminism

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I understand why some women do not want to be viewed as feminists. A lot of our mothers and grandmothers were that way. Having the man assume all the responsibilities can be a liberating thing for some people. It certainly takes away a lot of worry in some cases. It's not a track I want to be on but my mother sure as heck was! I won't go into all the family history here but ,suffice it to say, at the age of 29 my father was left with 5 dependent female family members and one brother with Down Syndrome for whom he was totally responsible. I think that's when his views shifted and my sister and I were definitely raised to be different from our mother, grandmother and greatgrandmother from that moment on...over our mother's objections.

While I strongly disagree with her attitude, it was, after all, HER right to be that way...though it certainly caused a lot of issues after my father passed away. Personally it is not a way I want to live. Having spent about 20 years in the construction industry when women were not as visible there are they are today, I've been in both worlds as women move towards equality in the workplace and it hasn't been easy. But I have found that men for the most part will respect you when they see that you are capable and know what you are doing. And you have to earn that respect by being professional. I don't mind being "tested" - I've done it to them when they didn't even realize it!

This thought process is coming back with a group of very religious people called "Quiverfull" that believe a woman's place is in the home and God has placed the man as the head of the household in order to provide for the family. It's very interesting to read some of the plans these groups make to almost live off the grid. I don't personally understand why a woman would want to do this, or a man for that matter, since I don't want to be the sole supporter of any able adult.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

This thought process is coming back with a group of very religious people called "Quiverfull" that believe a woman's place is in the home and God has placed the man as the head of the household in order to provide for the family.

And without going as far as the Quiverfull folks, there's the complimentarian view, also a conservative religious view.

I don't personally understand why a woman would want to do this, or a man for that matter, since I don't want to be the sole supporter of any able adult.

But surely a feminist couple can make the choice that, for them (whether for the short term or long term), it makes sense for one to work outside the home and one to stay at home. I think there's a very real difference between, say, the wife not working outside the home because she's not "supposed to" and the wife (or husband) not working outside the home because she/he/they have made the decision that it's what's best for them.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And without going as far as the Quiverfull folks, there's the complimentarian view, also a conservative religious view.

But surely a feminist couple can make the choice that, for them (whether for the short term or long term), it makes sense for one to work outside the home and one to stay at home. I think there's a very real difference between, say, the wife not working outside the home because she's not "supposed to" and the wife (or husband) not working outside the home because she/he/they have made the decision that it's what's best for them.

Certainly. The Quiverfull group is just the extreme end of the anti-feminist spectrum and why I used them as an example. Women (and men) should have the option to stay home if they feel it's the best for their families, but it goes a little farther with this group.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Certainly. The Quiverfull group is just the extreme end of the anti-feminist spectrum and why I used them as an example. Women (and men) should have the option to stay home if they feel it's the best for their families, but it goes a little farther with this group.

You're being charitable when you say "a little farther."

[SWTXBelle]

There is a difference between the denotative meaning of the word and the connotative. Many women who are in fact described by the denotative meaning reject the term because of the connotative meaning.

As for me, Nora Ephron stated that I cannot be called a feminist because I am anti-abortion.( http://womenandhollywood.com/2010/10...e-on-feminism/) Fine. But the next time you read an article in which self-proclaimed feminists wring their hands because they can't understand why women who believe in equality won't call themselves feminists please understand that it may be because they were told believing in equality between the sexes wasn't enough.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

There is a difference between the denotative meaning of the word and the connotative. Many women who are in fact described by the denotative meaning reject the term because of the connotative meaning.

As for me, Nora Ephron stated that I cannot be called a feminist because I am anti-abortion.( http://womenandhollywood.com/2010/10...e-on-feminism/) Fine. But the next time you read an article in which self-proclaimed feminists wring their hands because they can't understand why women who believe in equality won't call themselves feminists please understand that it may be because they were told believing in equality between the sexes wasn't enough.

Some Republicans have said that you cannot be prochoice or gay or athiest and a Republican. Some Democrats have said you must be also prochoice, and they wanted it written into the party platform to make sure you knew they said it. The Pope has said that you cannot promote contraception and be Catholic, and yet some women use it all the time and do not think twice about it or calling themselves Catholic.

So why let it bother you what Nora Ephron thinks?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

You're being charitable when you say "a little farther."

I suspect my brother and SIL are in this group so I have to be nice.

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I admit that I swallowed really, really hard when Sarah Palin said she was a feminist. It's not my job to say how she is allowed to label herself, but it's not the label I would use.

I would absolutely say Sarah Palin is a feminist. She may not hold to all tenets of feminism, but look where she has gotten in life. She was the first republican vice presidential candidate. Not too shabby, even if I can't stand her.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I would absolutely say Sarah Palin is a feminist. She may not hold to all tenets of feminism, but look where she has gotten in life. She was the first republican vice presidential candidate. Not too shabby, even if I can't stand her.

This is tricky, because Palin is a very much a "do as I say, not as I do" kinda politician. One look at her children and the sanctity of their marriages makes that clear.

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I would absolutely say Sarah Palin is a feminist.

OMG NO NO NO NO NO! NOT EVER!

One doesn't have to make specific choices for one's own life to be a feminist... but one sure as hell doesn't get to enact policies that limit women and still call themselves a feminist.

This is the woman that decided rape victims should pay for their own rape kits... ya know, to save money.

Sarah Palin is no more a feminist that those female twits that make a (really good) living telling women to get back in the kitchen.

As to the topic of abortion, I don't think it's mandatory that a person personally be okay with abortion, rather they shouldn't seek to deny other women that choice. Personally, I have pretty specific limits on my comfort with choosing abortion for myself (rape, threat to my life/health, fetal conditions incompatible with life) but I would never dream of forcing other women to live by my personal standards. It's pro-choice not pro-abortion... I choose what's best for me and my family and I have enough faith in other women to respect their ability to do the same.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

OMG NO NO NO NO NO! NOT EVER!

One doesn't have to make specific choices for one's own life to be a feminist... but one sure as hell doesn't get to enact policies that limit women and still call themselves a feminist.

This is the woman that decided rape victims should pay for their own rape kits... ya know, to save money.

Sarah Palin is no more a feminist that those female twits that make a (really good) living telling women to get back in the kitchen.

As to the topic of abortion, I don't think it's mandatory that a person personally be okay with abortion, rather they shouldn't seek to deny other women that choice. Personally, I have pretty specific limits on my comfort with choosing abortion for myself (rape, threat to my life/health, fetal conditions incompatible with life) but I would never dream of forcing other women to live my my personal standards. It's pro-choice not pro-abortion... I choose what's best for me and my family and I have enough faith in other women to respect their ability to do the same.

I have to disagree. You can have different political views and still be a feminist. She believes that women can hold equal positions that a man can including the presidency of the United States. A single issue like rape victims having to buy their own rape kits comes down to a Republican vs Democrat type issue and does not disqualify her as a feminist. I don't agree with a lot or practically anything she stands for, but she doesn't believe in holding women back to 1950s standards.