University of Texas Supreme Court case

[DubaiSis]

There is no such thing as equally qualified when it comes to these sorts of things because people are first and foremost super special snowflakes. And as has been discussed here, a 4.0 is not a 4.0 is not a 4.0. It depends on the school, the curriculum, your class choices, your extracurriculars, etc. AND it depends on your social background. The kid who grows up in South Central with a crackhead for a Mom who manages to pull out a 3.5 with 1 sport has accomplished A LOT. The kid with the tutor and the high prestige high school and a car from before she's 16 and summer camp every year with a 3.5 hasn't done much.

But that being said, I'm really of 2 minds about these arguments, and really would like to err in favor of advantage instead of race. The poor kid described above could be any race, including white, and my opinion of her accomplishment wouldn't change. And as the economic upper echelons become more racially diverse, the racial minority rich kids don't require the same leg up their parents and grandparents did. But I'm also afraid that a lot of schools would quickly backtrack to the good old days when they only accepted white boys. But on the other hand (how many hands is that now) I do believe there is a significant portion of the population, including rich white boys, who would choose not to attend a school that lacked any diversity. Using Harvard as an example, they continue to be one of the toughest schools to get into, and they work very hard at having all 50 states, many countries, both genders, and every race covered in every new freshman class. And they seem to still accomplish this while letting in plenty of legacies. I can't imagine them changing that policy just because they don't have to accept minorities, women, etc. But would Big State U? I don't know.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

But that being said, I'm really of 2 minds about these arguments . . . .

Only 2?

"Affirmative action" can take so many forms and mean so many things, and the history, considerations and implications involved are anything but simple and straightforward. That's one reason I look askance when someone says something like "I will never believe that affirmative action is a good solution."

[adpimiz]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Only 2?

"Affirmative action" can take so many forms and mean so many things, and the history, considerations and implications involved are anything but simple and straightforward. That's one reason I look askance when someone says something like "I will never believe that affirmative action is a good solution."

I was, admittedly, thinking more of race/ethnicity than social background/upbringing.

[Munchkin03]

Totally unrelated to the specific issue of UT, but to the larger issue of fairness in admission vs. perceived "diversity," here's an issue rumbling about in NYC:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-under-review/

Here's the TL;DR version: NYC has 9 specialized public high schools. One is an arts high school that requires a portfolio; the other 8 require an exam, taken in the 8th grade. The schools are extremely prestigious; one has the distinction of having more Nobel laureates than any other HS in the country. Unlike the rest of NYC's public high schools which, for the most part, are majority Black and Latino, the three most selective are majority Asian, with White, Black, and Latino students making up the rest. Socioecomically, the students come from more working class/middle class environments than the general public school population, which is more working class/poor.

Now, the NAACP has sued because they feel the test is obviously unfair to Black and Latino students, since they tend not to score so well. Apparently, there aren't cultural biases in this test like there are alleged to be in the SAT. The DOE offers a FREE summer-long prep course, which includes meals; many schools offer after-school prep for kids who can't do the summer program.

Most people have come forward saying that the test is perfectly fair, and the schools don't look at anything else but the test scores. So, what say you, GC population?

Even as a proponent of socioeconomic-based AA, I feel that the NAACP, like most of their lawsuits, doesn't have a leg to stand on with this one. Has anyone read about the firefighters' exams?

[GeorgiaGreek]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Now, the NAACP has sued because they feel the test is obviously unfair to Black and Latino students, since they tend not to score so well. Apparently, there aren't cultural biases in this test like there are alleged to be in the SAT. The DOE offers a FREE summer-long prep course, which includes meals; many schools offer after-school prep for kids who can't do the summer program.

Most people have come forward saying that the test is perfectly fair, and the schools don't look at anything else but the test scores. So, what say you, GC population?

Even as a proponent of socioeconomic-based AA, I feel that the NAACP, like most of their lawsuits, doesn't have a leg to stand on with this one. Has anyone read about the firefighters' exams?

Can anyone give a specific example of how a test could be biased to someone of a particular race? I know there have been issues with standardized tests asking questions that may be biased towards economic status (ex. a math question involving an escalator would be confusing to someone from a poor and/or rural area where they have never seen an escalator) but how could a test possibly ask questions that favor an ethnicity?