School with Lowest Percentage accepted?

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

Back to clarify what I meant! There's not a 'shortage' of off-campus housing per say, but if you're looking to room with more than 1 other person, you sign leases for houses in September/October for the next school year, nicer apartments are gone by December. There's a lot of competition, and a lot of the apartments are, for lack of a better phrase, hell holes. (Case in point: my BF's apartment has mice in the walls and cabinets right now and they won't do a thing about it. They poop on his dishes! We're buying mousetraps this week) The on-campus apartments outside of Union Street aren't places people really want to live unless it's a last resort, as they're expensive and have rather unflattering nicknames to describe the people living inside of them. Girls don't and won't go back to the dorms because there is a stigma that people who live in the dorms more than one year are socially inept, basically. Plus they're expensive and a pricey meal plan is basically required.

So in the end, girls are like well...I can move to a tiny apartment, compete for a house, or stay in my mansion where someone cooks and cleans for me. Other than seniors...it seems like a pretty obvious choice!

I don't want to come across like I'm arguing with you at all - I promise I'm not. I get that every campus culture is different and if this is how girls see it at IU - well, it is what it is. It's just that how different schools in different parts of the country do things interests me, and I can't quite wrap my head around this one.

I get not wanting to live in a hell hole, not wanting to live in the dorms more than one year (that seems to be a stigma at a lot of schools), and not wanting to pay a fortune for an apartment and the advantages to living in.

The bolded is what I don't get. If Indiana changed the system and told girls upfront that they would only be living in the house 1, 2, or 3 years (whatever they decided), so the girls knew at least a year in advance they were going to have to find other housing - what would keep them from signing leases in September/October for the next school year and getting the good apartments well before December? I
guess I'm not following the timeline here.

Also - the nicknames given to people living in some of the apartments would bother them? What sorority or fraternity hasn't been given an unflattering nickname by someone? A college junior or senior would care about that? That just kind of baffles me.

Of course, sorority women would have to tell me on this one - I don't know - all I have to go on is my daughter's feelings on the subject - but it seems to me that in terms of bonding and sisterhood, there would be a point of "diminishing returns" in that after four years of living, working and socializing with mostly the same say 100 girls you would go from sisterhood to "Get within 50 feet of me and I'm going to freakin' strangle you," pretty quick. Come to think of it - that's how I felt about my biological sister a good part of the time and there was just one of her.

Cooking and cleaning aside - personally I'd want some privacy and independence by junior year....at the latest. I guess I just can't picture that many girls doing that well together over that length of time but if IU's making it work - hats off to them.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

The bolded is what I don't get. If Indiana changed the system and told girls upfront that they would only be living in the house 1, 2, or 3 years (whatever they decided), so the girls knew at least a year in advance they were going to have to find other housing - what would keep them from signing leases in September/October for the next school year and getting the good apartments well before December? I guess I'm not following the timeline here.

In Champaign, you have to sign in Septemberish to get the best places for the following year, and we manage. Also, women with great apartments or houses will often "pass them down" to women in their chapters, i.e. recommend them to the landlord and make sure they get first shot at them.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

Of course, sorority women would have to tell me on this one - I don't know - all I have to go on is my daughter's feelings on the subject - but it seems to me that in terms of bonding and sisterhood, there would be a point of "diminishing returns" in that after four years of living, working and socializing with mostly the same say 100 girls you would go from sisterhood to "Get within 50 feet of me and I'm going to freakin' strangle you," pretty quick. Come to think of it - that's how I felt about my biological sister a good part of the time and there was just one of her.

You are right more than you can even know. I lived in 3 years, and the last year I had a single, probably for the health and welfare of the rest of the house. I don't regret having lived in that year, and it may serve to nudge you out of the nest, as it were, but it definitely gets to be a strain.

[IUHoosiergirl88]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

Also - the nicknames given to people living in some of the apartments would bother them? What sorority or fraternity hasn't been given an unflattering nickname by someone? A college junior or senior would care about that? That just kind of baffles me.

Cooking and cleaning aside - personally I'd want some privacy and independence by junior year....at the latest. I guess I just can't picture that many girls doing that well together over that length of time but if IU's making it work - hats off to them.

Trust me, by my senior year, I was going insane. I wanted to live out just so I could cook my own meals. My house went from a 4 year to a 3 year live in policy (or until you're a senior, depending on if you rushed as a freshman or sophomore) and girls whined at first, but they're used to it now. As long as you give them advance notice...like saying that starting with the 2013-2014 school year, seniors will have to live out, I think it's fine.

In terms of the first, I guess an unflattering nickname was a poor choice of words. IU has a large Asian population, and when they move out of the dorms, they move to the on campus apartments...IU students in general thus avoid the on campus apartments like the plague. They're also extremely outdated.

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

Trust me, by my senior year, I was going insane. I wanted to live out just so I could cook my own meals. My house went from a 4 year to a 3 year live in policy (or until you're a senior, depending on if you rushed as a freshman or sophomore) and girls whined at first, but they're used to it now. As long as you give them advance notice...like saying that starting with the 2013-2014 school year, seniors will have to live out, I think it's fine.

In terms of the first, I guess an unflattering nickname was a poor choice of words. IU has a large Asian population, and when they move out of the dorms, they move to the on campus apartments...IU students in general thus avoid the on campus apartments like the plague. They're also extremely outdated.

Without knowing much about the specific culture of your school - I would agree with your first paragaph in that people as whole typically whine about changes to longstanding traditions and then adjust pretty well after the change go into effect.

As to the bolded - hmmm...I've lived in Pacific Rim states (Oregon/Washington) for 30 years now. A large percentage of our population is Asian or Asian-American and our universities reflect that. I can't say I haven't heard that sentiment but why would someone want to avoid apartments like a plague because a lot of Asian kids live there?

[ForeverRoses]

As an IU outsider who now lives and breathes IU recruitment info ( okay, that might be a bit dramatic) yes, IU is brutal. On both sides. Most groups already have a rough idea of what quota will be for them in January. I have also heard rumors of some of the groups with senior live out policies getting rid of them now that there are additional sororities. Which is nice for budgeting...
I will also say that a few years ago NPC visited campus to try and get the campus to move away from bed rush. From the papers I have seen, the presentation wasn't very well received. Then again the approach left much to be desired. (at least that is my impression after reading all the meeting minutes and the notes from the presentation)

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

I can't say I haven't heard that sentiment but why would someone want to avoid apartments like a plague because a lot of Asian kids live there?

Poor souls must not enjoy Asian food.

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Indiana was actually a school my daughter was interested in. I flat out said NO. Also UT even though all my husband's family is there AND she attended summer camp in TX. I don't need the heart ache or drama and there are plenty of other schools that she is interested in with nice Greek Systems where there is a better chance she will receive a bid.

You refused to allow your daughter to consider schools only based on their Greek systems?

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

You could get a Pi Phi in the family at Indiana...just sayin'.

Any of the 20 chapters involved could make a difference, but it would take a monumental effort to promote any sort of change there.

Isn't part of the allure based on how "exclusive" the club is? Do you think there would be as much desire to join if there were spaces for all (provided there was adequate housing otherwise available?)

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

Isn't part of the allure based on how "exclusive" the club is? Do you think there would be as much desire to join if there were spaces for all (provided there was adequate housing otherwise available?)

Yes, to an extent. Each chapter could still add 5 women to their bid lists and place 100 more women overall. Just adding 5 spots would increase the percentage placed by 5%. It would place more women and still have the chapter size the chapters seem to want. The bed quota just makes it odd because the chapters range in size so drastically. Just making a campus total would make the situation better, in my opinion. Even with a uniform total, there would still be stronger and weaker chapters, and I think that it is/was IU thrives on unfortunately. (The previous statement is personal opinion and based on past experience and college women I talk to when on campus in the fall.) I don't think the chapters at IU want to be at 300, which they would be if the placement rate was average. I don't think I would have liked a chapter that large, but who knows? If that's all I knew, I guess it wouldn't make a difference.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by carnation

Maybe a school with a bed rush, like Indiana.

Sorry to be an ignoramous, but what is a "bed rush"? I've never heard this term before.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

Sorry to be an ignoramous, but what is a "bed rush"? I've never heard this term before.

Each chapter determines its own "quota" based on the number of available beds in their house. This number is not calculated with any regard to the number of PNMs going through recruitment. So, if a sorority has 30 seniors graduate, they have 30 open spots. The physical houses at IU vary in size greatly, so the size of the chapters do also. Tri-delta might have 25 spots while ADPi might have 80. In any case, there tend to be WAY more PNMs vying for spots then there are spots available.

In a "normal" system, if there are 800 PNMs attending preference parties, and 19 chapters, each chapter will try to take a quota of 42. If there isn't space to live in the house, live somewhere else. At IU, if there are 800 PNMs attending pref and the available bed spots total to 450, 350 PNMs are just out of luck. This creates a lot of resentment among those PNMs who are left out after completing the process.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

Each chapter determines its own "quota" based on the number of available beds in their house. This number is not calculated with any regard to the number of PNMs going through recruitment. So, if a sorority has 30 seniors graduate, they have 30 open spots. The physical houses at IU vary in size greatly, so the size of the chapters do also. Tri-delta might have 25 spots while ADPi might have 80. In any case, there tend to be WAY more PNMs vying for spots then there are spots available.

In a "normal" system, if there are 800 PNMs attending preference parties, and 19 chapters, each chapter will try to take a quota of 42. If there isn't space to live in the house, live somewhere else. At IU, if there are 800 PNMs attending pref and the available bed spots total to 450, 350 PNMs are just out of luck. This creates a lot of resentment among those PNMs who are left out after completing the process.

Ouch. So theoretically, a chapter could have all of its seniors decide they want to stay for a 5th year and a second degree and end up with a quota of zero?

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

You refused to allow your daughter to consider schools only based on their Greek systems?

No. With so many out of state schools with a good program she wants to major in why would I support her going to school with such a rigid quota system. The beauty of going to college in the US is there are thousands of schools to choose from and many that have her major. I choose to put her somewhere that not only allows her to grow and thrive personally, but also prepares her for a career that she can be successful in. Part of that is her desire to join a GLO and I want to give her the best shot of that. In my opinion, IU does not provide that opportunity.

By the way here are my daughters criteria for looking at schools. I don't necessarily agree with them.

1. Good football program
2. Good basketball program
3. Good Greek system

She is 17. I didn't necessarily have different ideas as a 17 year old. The sorority I initially wanted to join at my university I picked because they had the prettiest house. Go figure!~

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

Isn't part of the allure based on how "exclusive" the club is? Do you think there would be as much desire to join if there were spaces for all (provided there was adequate housing otherwise available?)

If IU moved away from bed rush and used the same system everyone else does, it wouldn't eliminate exclusivity. Except at Tufts, there is no guarantee of a "space for all." A PNM can always be dropped from recruitment entirely. And, the desirable chapters still won't take "just anybody." Even at schools where there is guaranteed placement for PNMs who maximize their options, there are tiers. So, exclusivity is still there, but it is within the system. In other words, the elitism isn't so much in just being greek, but in belonging to a certain chapter.