London Olympic

[IrishLake]

I won't lie, I'm happy to see the Phelps era end. Yes, he's great, but I'm ready to hear about someone else when it comes to mens swimming.

SO happy for Serena and Andy Murray getting golds in singles tennis! Murray had and AWESOME match today, and Federer wasn't on his game at all. Watching Serena dance was one of my favorite parts.

[AXOmom]

^^^Agreed, and this has nothing to do with that, but who was his orthodontist??!! I'm mean, anyone who grew up in a country not named Great Britain should have better teeth than that.

********

I didn't see Gabby winning the all-around (meaning I didn't see it coming). Glad an American won it, but initially I thought Jordyn and Gabby would go to the all-around (still a little sad that the rules are what they are and she didn't get to go), and I wasn't even sure Jordyn would get it, but I thought Jordyn would finish ahead of Gabby.

I really thought that unless she had a major disaster, they would find a way to give it to Victoria because Americans had won the all-around in the previous two, we won the team, and the World's had been a close and controversial finish. Never so glad to be totally wrong.

I agree with Marta (because who would disagree with that woman), that I don't think I can remember a gymnast coming on the scene and coming up as quickly as Gabby.

And on that note....Daughter showed me this today which she found pretty funny....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQzkMoEGDGE

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

I really thought that unless she had a major disaster, they would find a way to give it to Victoria because Americans had won the all-around in the previous two, we won the team, and the World's had been a close and controversial finish. Never so glad to be totally wrong.

I know I'm in the minority about this, but this is one reason I just never can get interested in gymnastics, men's or women's, in the Olympics. I like events where person who is the fastest, throws or jumps the furthest, or scores the most goals/points wins. I don't really like the events with panels of judges who can "find a way to give" a win to an athlete or team.

[AXOmom]

I don't think you're in the minority actually. A lot of people (okay, mostly men) mention that as a reason they don't like gymnastics or ice skating.

I should have qualified that statement by saying that sometimes gymnasts, coaches, and fans believe this has happened when the score was REALLY close. Of course, unless the competitors are pretty even to begin with - it can't be done. If it's close, I don't think it's necessarily intentional - in other words, I don't think they get together and decide ahead of time - I just think the thought can influence their judging a bit if it's close.

Gymnastics is subjective, certainly, but not as subjective as people think it is particularly when you know how difficulty is determined and how execution points are deducted. It really is pretty specific and doesn't give judges much latitude. In addition, depending on the level and the meet, several people judge separately and if their individual scores aren't within a specific point difference, they have to dicuss, go over their deductions and rescore. I know, more information than you wanted.

I agree the sports you mentioned are less subjective; on the other hand, can you say you've never heard basketball fans complain a ref determined the outcome of a game due to a subjective foul being called? Those complaints are fewer in football, but they happen. What about several recent boxing matches? I agree that things like swimming and track are pretty straightforward, but my husband is a track coach, and believe or not, they've had some fishy stuff go on there as well.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

I agree the sports you mentioned are less subjective; on the other hand, can you say you've never heard basketball fans complain a ref determined the outcome of a game due to a subjective foul being called? Those complaints are fewer in football, but they happen.

Oh absolutely. Cheating/flubs/subjectivity can enter any referreed sport, but to be honest, I think they're less prevelant in some sports than others, just through the nature of the game. And ultimately, the game is still decided by goals scored, not by points awarded by a judge.

And to be honest, I really don't care about Olympic basketball or tennis either. I think I'm old school and miss the days when Olympic athlete meant not professional -- if I want to watch an NBA game or a pro tennis match, I can. (Though I'll take college basketball over NBA any day of the week.) I mainly watch the Summer Olympics for swimming and track and field, though I can also get into things like volleyball or water polo. Other stuff I'll watch if it's on, but only because it's on.

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Oh absolutely. Cheating/flubs/subjectivity can enter any referreed sport, but to be honest, I think they're less prevelant in some sports than others, just through the nature of the game. And ultimately, the game is still decided by goals scored, not by points awarded by a judge.

And to be honest, I really don't care about Olympic basketball or tennis either. I think I'm old school and miss the days when Olympic athlete meant not professional -- if I want to watch an NBA game or a pro tennis match, I can. (Though I'll take college basketball over NBA any day of the week.) I mainly watch the Summer Olympics for swimming and track and field, though I can also get into things like volleyball or water polo. Other stuff I'll watch if it's on, but only because it's on.

Agreed. I'm on the fence about Olympic basketball. I get what you're saying, but at the same time, I remember how frustrating it was to go into the Olympics and know that the players we sent weren't our best, and our best would mop up the floor with their best. Of course, now that they are, in fact, mopping up the floor with them, it's all pretty anti-climatic and boring. I'm down to kind of keeping track of how our local NBA players ( Blazers) are doing in the Olympics....and that's pretty depressing, so I've avoided Olympic basketball.

I didn't use to care all that much about basketball - NBA or college, but hubby is a March Madness college basketball addict (he needs a 12 step program for it or something), and we lived in Spokane for 11 years and became HUGE Gonzaga fans in that time, so now I follow it more and yeah, I also prefer it to the NBA.

Now that the gymnastics is almost over, we'll be quickly moving on to track which is the other major focus for our family, since hubby ran track in college and coaches it now.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

I didn't use to care all that much about basketball - NBA or college, but hubby is a March Madness college basketball addict (he needs a 12 step program for it or something) . . . .

But the first step of the 12-step program is to admit you have a problem, and it doesn't sound to me like there's a problem for him to admit to having.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Watching Serena dance was one of my favorite parts.

Yeah, I never thought I'd see an American athlete crip-walking in London. LOL

Originally Posted by AXOmom

Gymnastics is subjective, certainly, but not as subjective as people think it is particularly when you know how difficulty is determined and how execution points are deducted. It really is pretty specific and doesn't give judges much latitude. In addition, depending on the level and the meet, several people judge separately and if their individual scores aren't within a specific point difference, they have to dicuss, go over their deductions and rescore. I know, more information than you wanted.

I agree the sports you mentioned are less subjective; on the other hand, can you say you've never heard basketball fans complain a ref determined the outcome of a game due to a subjective foul being called? Those complaints are fewer in football, but they happen.

Are you suggesting that gymnastics judging is more or less subjective
than other sports, particularly in light of the e.g. you used. I've officiated high school basketball for 11 years (7 years at the varsity level) and if I had $10 for every fan (99 percent of the time a parent/fan from the losing team) who claimed that refs determined a game's outcome due to subjectivity, I'd be rich.

We're required to be in sync in terms of floor mgt., have consistency of calls, high degree of rules proficiency/application, and rigorous performance/evaluation criteria that have to be adhered to or you don't advance. At the varsity level, virtually every game is recorded. If you're making b.s. calls, you don't stay long at that level.

If you weren't suggesting more subjectivity in other sports,necessarily than in gymnastics, my apologies. But when I hear someone talk about alleged subjectivity, or how officials control (determine) contests, particularly at higher levels of competition, I seldom stay silent.

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

Yeah, I never thought I'd see an American athlete crip-walking in London. LOL



Are you suggesting that gymnastics judging is more or less subjective
than other sports, particularly in light of the e.g. you used. I've officiated high school basketball for 11 years (7 years at the varsity level) and if I had $10 for every fan (99 percent of the time a parent/fan from the losing team) who claimed that refs determined a game's outcome due to subjectivity, I'd be rich.

We're required to be in sync in terms of floor mgt., have consistency of calls, high degree of rules proficiency/application, and rigorous performance/evaluation criteria that have to be adhered to or you don't advance. At the varsity level, virtually every game is recorded. If you're making b.s. calls, you don't stay long at that level.

If you weren't suggesting more subjectivity in other sports,necessarily than in gymnastics, my apologies. But when I hear someone talk about alleged subjectivity, or how officials control (determine) contests, particularly at higher levels of competition, I seldom stay silent.

No, I'm not at all suggesting that other sports are more subjective than gymnastics. I can see how it read that way, but no - I just meant that gymnastics is not as subjective as people might think and some sports aren't as objective as people might think.

I recognize that sports like gymanstics, ice-skating, and for that matter, boxing (unless there is a knock-out) are more subjective because they use judges than say, basketball, football, track or swimming, but the other sports (particularly basketball and football out of those four) aren't completely objective since no matter how well trained they are - refs are human and what they call or when they call it, or for that matter what they see and don't see or how they see it is going to vary to some degree (however slight) and there are times (rare times, but times) when that human element will affect outcomes.

Two things on the bolded

1) It's true of gymnastics judges as well - they train for years and have to pass extensive tests by level and yearly to advance.

2) I know what you've said about refs and their training is true and they have a tough and thankless job, so this is a minor digressing vent that I'm obligated to take as a Pac-12 fan because we've all taken a vow to gripe about it whenever the subject of refs comes up, but our refs must have missed the classes, training, something. Seriously, I have no idea how they rose to the position they're in. Apparently there are no qualified people on the West Coast. Our commissioner actually fired all but one of the football refs the year before last which we all hoped would help. Not so much. .....and don't even get us started on our basketball refs. We will whine, bitch and moan your ear right off. .

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

Agreed, and this has nothing to do with that, but who was his orthodontist??!! I'm mean, anyone who grew up in a country not named Great Britain should have better teeth than that.

I don't think Phelps had an orthodontist. My kids were going through expanders and braces during the 2008 Olympics and every time he was interviewed one of them said something along the lines of: "He needs an expander! His jaw is too narrow! There isn't enough room for his tongue!"

This time they were saying, "He still didn't get braces?!"

It really is a shame...his mother is a school principal and she must have had excellent dental insurance. With all of her nurturing and support, I don't see how she overlooked this.

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

I don't think Phelps had an orthodontist. My kids were going through expanders and braces during the 2008 Olympics and every time he was interviewed one of them said something along the lines of: "He needs an expander! His jaw is too narrow! There isn't enough room for his tongue!"

This time they were saying, "He still didn't get braces?!"

It really is a shame...his mother is a school principal and she must have had excellent dental insurance. With all of her nurturing and support, I don't see how she overlooked this.

Well, that would explain it, but I thought (could be totally mistaken) that I saw a picture of him when he was younger with braces on. If so, something clearly went wrong, but if I were him, I'd be using some of that endorsement money to get it taken care of pronto.