He, she or it? Family keeps baby's gender a secret

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Well, good luck in trying to deconstruct hundreds of thousands of years of social development!

...which has, of course, led to a variety of genders.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

...which has, of course, led to a variety of genders.

Yep there are countries that formally acknowledge more than 2 genders.

As for what PiKA posted, anything can be taken to the extreme. All things in moderation. Yet and still, most people do not see the extreme in how the average person applies the traditional gender structure.

[DrPhil]

This was discussed with a group of people last night. Almost all of them got offended and angry at the idea of hints of gender neutrality or genderless. All of the men were offended and extremely angry by the idea.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This was discussed with a group of people last night. Almost all of them got offended and angry at the idea of hints of gender neutrality or genderless. All of the men were offended and extremely angry by the idea.

Cognitive dissonance?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Cognitive dissonance?

I think so. It matched the other things some of the people in the group were saying about other topics so I was not shocked but rather amused by their level of offense and anger.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is no more of a social experiment than parents who choose to discipline their children differently than they were disciplined as children.

With that said, no, the way they raised their child will not be flawed just because people think the children are girls and treat them as such. These parents aren't claiming that gender mysteriously disappears just because they don't reveal the child's gender. This child may be perfectly fine identifying as A GENDER but this family wants that to not be forced on the child before the child even establishes its own personality type. I absolutely hate gendered babyshowers and gendered babyrooms. There are other forms of socialization that children undergo and gender doesn't have to be one of them. That's fine if others like gender socialization but not everyone does.

ETA: Now, the "boy" in this story wants the parents to tell people that "he is a he." That could be the "boy" making his official statement about what "he" self-identifies as; or it could be the "boy" doing this out of societal pressure--and noticing that the boys are consistently treated better than girls are. Either way, the parents need to think about letting this "boy" make "his" decision to be identified as a "boy." That "boy" may still choose to have long hair and wear pink. I doubt that. "He" will probably stop wearing pink and cut "his" hair because "he" will want to be like society expects "him" to be.



Gender is not completely natural. Much of it is socially constructed because it is different from biological sex. That's the point. But, since you think it's natural, you can understand why simply teaching your sons that they can prefer dance and still be masculine (who's to say that sons have to want to be masculine?) is not enough.



All parents use their children to make statements. It's simply a matter of which statements they are making.

ETA: Regardless of the statement that the parents are making, I really hope these children aren't emotionally and mentally harmed by any of this. Children are mentally and emotionally negatively (and positively) impacted by gender everyday.



Gender wouldn't exist if it wasn't for socialization and stereotyping. It's the cliche` "chicken or the egg" thing.

I agree that that doesn't mean that the existence of gender is a "problem" just as other categorical distinctions aren't inherently "problems." But, there are plenty of people who find it problematic for various reasons.

Quoting because all of this is wonderful and beautiful. You win the internet.

[pshsx1]

Also, here's a "genderbread" person to help anyone distinguish sex from gender.

[sigmagirl2000]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Also, here's a "genderbread" person to help anyone distinguish sex from gender.

That's awesome. Mind if I use this to clarify for confused students/ (co-workers)?

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

That's awesome. Mind if I use this to clarify for confused students/ (co-workers)?

Go for it! It's not mine, but I use it for presentations for students and faculty as well.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Quoting because all of this is wonderful and beautiful. You win the internet.

LOL. The people at the event I attended over the weekend wanted to fight me for saying that. How dare I.

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Also, here's a "genderbread" person to help anyone distinguish sex from gender.

Awesome.

I just wish they spelled "feminine" correctly.