Not Religious and Interested in Fraternity Recruitment

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Honestly, I think you are limiting yourself unnecessarily if you won't even consider a fraternity because of what might happen to be in its ritual. Some of us choose to view ritual as a historical connection to our founders, that reflects the time in which it was written, and not modern-day realities. Putting my hand on a bible means nothing, because the bible means nothing to me. Believe me, nobody in my initiating chapter cared.

When you go through rush, I think it will be obvious if a fraternity's brothers are especially Christian (or Jewish, I suppose), and you would truly be a bad fit. But for the most part, lot of people (everyone?) question their faith in their college years, and you are not betraying your brothers to go through the motions of ritual without meaning some parts.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

When you go through rush, I think it will be obvious if a fraternity's brothers are especially Christian (or Jewish, I suppose), and you would truly be a bad fit. But for the most part, lot of people (everyone?) question their faith in their college years, and you are not betraying your brothers to go through the motions of ritual without meaning some parts.

This.

Honestly, when I saw the title for this thread, my first thought was "and so?"

[33girl]

I think that in some parts of the country (like the Deep South) it truly would be an issue. I give the OP major credit for not wanting to promise anything he doesn't believe in. We're always getting told to "live our ritual," well, he is doing that before he even gets a bid. Which is awesome. It doesn't sound like this is a "questioning" thing, rather, this is something he's studied and thought about a lot and truly committed to.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

We're always getting told to "live our ritual,"

By whom?

And to give an example from Phi Mu's open creed, it says I should "reverence God as our Maker, striving to serve Him in all things." What does is even mean to "live my ritual" in that sense?

Contrast with "To be to others what we would they would be to us." That one's pretty clear. Live the golden rule. Okay!

I think, at their core, fraternity and sorority values are more alike than different, regardless of how they were expressed in words 150+ years ago. I also think that their expression in individual chapters does not correspond to the rituals themselves, i.e. the most religious chapter on campus does not necessarily have the most references to god in its ritual. In the example Jazing posted just above me, a guy could join thinking "non-religious, cool" and then find himself feeling out of place when everyone goes home for Rosh Hashanah (see also: Theta at U of M).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think, at their core, fraternity and sorority values are more alike than different, regardless of how they were expressed in words 150+ years ago.

The thing is we're all speculating about how religious (or non-religious) the rituals of other orgs may or may not be. All we have to go on are our own rituals and the public statements that some GLOs make (such as making clear that belief in a Supreme Being, however one understands that, is required, or a notice to PNMs that "our rituals will in no way cause you discomfort with regard to your own beliefs"). While I do not doubt that for members of many orgs, the religious expressions in a ritual are easily seen in a historical context rather than a religious one, I would not assume that holds true for all orgs. I think it is possible that some orgs do still consider them as having real religious context. What I have read in public statements from one or two fraternities suggests that they do, at least nationally. What the view is at the chapter level, again, may be a different story.

That's why I think that all the OP can do is read up to know what specific fraternities say publicly on the subject and meet and talk to the members of chapters on his campus to gauge their attitudes.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The thing is we're all speculating about how religious (or non-religious) the rituals of other orgs may or may not be. All we have to go on are our own rituals and the public statements that some GLOs make (such as making clear that belief in a Supreme Being, however one understands that, is required, or a notice to PNMs that "our rituals will in no way cause you discomfort with regard to your own beliefs"). While I do not doubt that for members of many orgs, the religious expressions in a ritual are easily seen in a historical context rather than a religious one, I would not assume that holds true for all orgs. I think it is possible that some orgs do still consider them as having real religious context. What I have read in public statements from one or two fraternities suggests that they do, at least nationally. What the view is at the chapter level, again, may be a different story.

That's why I think that all the OP can do is read up to know what specific fraternities say public ally on the subject and meet and talk to the members of chapters on his campus to gauge their attitudes.

Right, I agree with everything you've said, I'm just saying that he is not going to be able to gather enough information via google search to really know what he is getting into.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Right, I agree with everything you've said, I'm just saying that he is not going to be able to gather enough information via google search to really know what he is getting into.

Agree completely.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Honestly, I think you are limiting yourself unnecessarily if you won't even consider a fraternity because of what might happen to be in its ritual. Some of us choose to view ritual as a historical connection to our founders, that reflects the time in which it was written, and not modern-day realities. Putting my hand on a bible means nothing, because the bible means nothing to me. Believe me, nobody in my initiating chapter cared.

When you go through rush, I think it will be obvious if a fraternity's brothers are especially Christian (or Jewish, I suppose), and you would truly be a bad fit. But for the most part, lot of people (everyone?) question their faith in their college years, and you are not betraying your brothers to go through the motions of ritual without meaning some parts.

I agree. I see motions such as saying, "So help me God", or "Under God", or putting the hand upon a bible as a cultural formality NOT as an affirmation of belief in a god. I also suspect that maybe OP isn't exactly 100% comfortable with his own belief system yet hence the extreme concern over this issue.