Should we change the way PNMs think of Recruitment?

[DubaiSis]

It's competitive if you're the one getting cut. If the school uses RFM, then it's competitive. Period. We've discussed here quite a bit that competitive generally means that you will likely find A home (presuming you have all the required credentials for your campus) but you may not find THE home.

And it IS a mutual selection process if you go all the way through rush as the superstar rushee who doesn't get cut by any chapters. Then the rushee gets to participate in the deciding. It does happen, even at the mega schools, just not very often, like I'd bet it goes that way for a handful of girls per school per year. Out of 1000+. If a girl can do SOME deciding, then that's great, but she shouldn't expect (although they do every year!) to get her top list for every round without having to go to any ranked chapters through the process.

KUDOS to the Greek adviser AXOMom mentioned. More of that and less of unicorns pooping rainbows would be extremely helpful to a lot of girls.

[AOII Angel]

I think people are misunderstanding the process. The "chapters" don't get to make the decisions first. The lists of chapters and PNMs are matched together every day. Top performing chapters and top performing PNMs get what they want first which leaves both weaker performing chapters and PNMs to take what is left over on their lists that makes them think it's not mutual selection. The "chapters" as a group aren't getting any choices before the PNMs. The lists must be matched. If chapter XYZ wants the top PNMs and they don't list XYZ, there is nothing they can do about it. PNMs want to whine when they get XYZ on their list, but XYZ also whines when they get PNMs they don't want every single day. It works both ways. In the end, this is the point of RFM...to make these women think about what is in front of them instead of what they can't have (from the PNM side and the chapter side.)

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

And it IS a mutual selection process if you go all the way through rush as the superstar rushee who doesn't get cut by any chapters. Then the rushee gets to participate in the deciding. It does happen, even at the mega schools, just not very often, like I'd bet it goes that way for a handful of girls per school per year. Out of 1000+. If a girl can do SOME deciding, then that's great, but she shouldn't expect (although they do every year!) to get her top list for every round without having to go to any ranked chapters through the process.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I think people are misunderstanding the process. The "chapters" don't get to make the decisions first. The lists of chapters and PNMs are matched together every day. Top performing chapters and top performing PNMs get what they want first which leaves both weaker performing chapters and PNMs to take what is left over on their lists that makes them think it's not mutual selection. The "chapters" as a group aren't getting any choices before the PNMs. The lists must be matched. If chapter XYZ wants the top PNMs and they don't list XYZ, there is nothing they can do about it. PNMs want to whine when they get XYZ on their list, but XYZ also whines when they get PNMs they don't want every single day. It works both ways. In the end, this is the point of RFM...to make these women think about what is in front of them instead of what they can't have (from the PNM side and the chapter side.)

Exactly - It IS a mutual selection process. Every chapter on a campus (except, MAYBE, for ultra-unusual superstar chapters at a few campuses) will lose PNMs they love at some point in recruitment. It might be on Bid Day instead of Round 1, but that's evidence of selection on the PNM side.

Conversely, how many PNMs truly get a bid to the chapter they ranked last every single day? I would say that's pretty unusual. The great majority of PNMs will have some say throughout their recruitment as far as which chapters they return to.

I think the reason why we have this idea that chapters are the ones deciding is only because we have a track record for how well chapters do in recruitment, and therefore we give them target numbers of women to return for each round of recruitment. The chapters know ahead of time about how many of their favorite PNMs to expect back, and will invite accordingly - but sometimes this means that a chapter is inviting back women they're fairly uncertain about for the next round. PNMs have no idea about their relative recruitable strength, so its an emotional shock when they aren't invited back to their favorite house.

Maybe it would be beneficial for NPC to create a video to be used at recruitment orientations around the country, explaining a little bit better what to expect during the process, and how the mutual selection process works. It'd ensure some consistency in what's being told PNMs year to year and from campus to campus.

[Splash]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Conversely, how many PNMs truly get a bid to the chapter they ranked last every single day? I would say that's pretty unusual. The great majority of PNMs will have some say throughout their recruitment as far as which chapters they return to.

Others might think differently, but I think on campuses with struggling chapters, many women rank these chapters last (try to drop) every day, and the amount of girls that get their last choice that they ranked last every day is about quota.

[TXGreekMom]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Exactly - It IS a mutual selection process. Every chapter on a campus (except, MAYBE, for ultra-unusual superstar chapters at a few campuses) will lose PNMs they love at some point in recruitment. It might be on Bid Day instead of Round 1, but that's evidence of selection on the PNM side.

Conversely, how many PNMs truly get a bid to the chapter they ranked last every single day? I would say that's pretty unusual. The great majority of PNMs will have some say throughout their recruitment as far as which chapters they return to.

I think the reason why we have this idea that chapters are the ones deciding is only because we have a track record for how well chapters do in recruitment, and therefore we give them target numbers of women to return for each round of recruitment. The chapters know ahead of time about how many of their favorite PNMs to expect back, and will invite accordingly - but sometimes this means that a chapter is inviting back women they're fairly uncertain about for the next round. PNMs have no idea about their relative recruitable strength, so its an emotional shock when they aren't invited back to their favorite house.

I am QFPing this for myself because it's a wonderful point. My rec crew is in that panicky summer phase where they are past graduation distractions and have plenty of free time to obsess about the process, the numbers. (I get it... they want to make some knowable sense of an unknowable.) And I am trying to help them prepare emotionally and pragmatically for SEC and Big 12 heartbreaks.

[Wynter]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I think people are misunderstanding the process. The "chapters" don't get to make the decisions first. The lists of chapters and PNMs are matched together every day. Top performing chapters and top performing PNMs get what they want first which leaves both weaker performing chapters and PNMs to take what is left over on their lists that makes them think it's not mutual selection. The "chapters" as a group aren't getting any choices before the PNMs. The lists must be matched. If chapter XYZ wants the top PNMs and they don't list XYZ, there is nothing they can do about it. PNMs want to whine when they get XYZ on their list, but XYZ also whines when they get PNMs they don't want every single day. It works both ways. In the end, this is the point of RFM...to make these women think about what is in front of them instead of what they can't have (from the PNM side and the chapter side.)

That's a good point that I didn't think of. And I know some chapters at my school have ended up having to give a bid to girls they didn't want, but because they weren't the "top dog" chapters they had no choice mathematically.

[carnation]

Now wait. There is no way in H__ that a chapter can be forced to take girls they don't want.

[Wynter]

Originally Posted by carnation

Now wait. There is no way in H__ that a chapter can be forced to take girls they don't want.

You know what you're probably right, but this is what I heard from girls in a certain chapter. Maybe because they didn't cut said girl earlier in the process or something?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Wynter

You know what you're probably right, but this is what I heard from girls in a certain chapter. Maybe because they didn't cut said girl earlier in the process or something?

The only way they might have to bid someone is if they put her on their bid list. Otherwise, no.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by carnation

Now wait. There is no way in H__ that a chapter can be forced to take girls they don't want.

That's not what we're saying. Chapters, just like PNMs may keep getting those same names back when their list is run through that they don't necessarily want. The chapters can completely release girls, even if it means they are not maximizing their options, just like PNMs can refuse to attend parties and not maximize their options, but there are consequences to these options. Some chapters don't choose to take those chances just like many PNMs don't take that chance.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by carnation

Now wait. There is no way in H__ that a chapter can be forced to take girls they don't want.

Exactly my point this is the crux that shows ultimately its the chapter that has the power to choose which PNMs they want, and if a PNM matches then its mutual selection.

Chapters are the only ones who can give out a bid. Therefore they're the ones who have a much greater factor in the selection process.

I know there are the ends of the bell curve where a everybody's rush crush with more invites than parties available has all the power to choose. I know of one girl who had two older sisters who were chapter alumna, including one who was the President, yet she preffed at a different house because she just connected with those girls better.

And then on the GLO side, at the lower end of the spectrum to put it bluntly they list as many girls as they hope to get to try and meet quota. I know that isn't how it happens everywhere, but it is a harsh truth at some chapters.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Exactly my point this is the crux that shows ultimately its the chapter that has the power to choose which PNMs they want, and if a PNM matches then its mutual selection.

Chapters are the only ones who can give out a bid. Therefore they're the ones who have a much greater factor in the selection process.

I know there are the ends of the bell curve where a everybody's rush crush with more invites than parties available has all the power to choose. I know of one girl who had two older sisters who were chapter alumna, including one who was the President, yet she preffed at a different house because she just connected with those girls better.

And then on the GLO side, at the lower end of the spectrum to put it bluntly they list as many girls as they hope to get to try and meet quota. I know that isn't how it happens everywhere, but it is a harsh truth at some chapters.

You don't have to be at the ends of the bell curve to have power as a PNM. Girls in the middle get to choose as well. Say PNM Polly goes back to three mid performing chapters and is well liked by all three. She is very happy with them all. This is an extremely common occurrence since in bell curves, this is the middle hump. PNM Polly has her choice of the three chapters. They all rank Polly very high, on their first bid lists in fact. In this case, Polly gets all the power, since she can choose where she goes. Whatever she ranks #1 will be her new sorority even if #2 or 3 would fit her better or would kill to have her. You are just blinded by the worst case scenarios.