Virgin Diaries

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Dealing with youth groups, I've had kids ask me "what is the MOST I can do with a guy/girl and still be a virgin?"

Seriously? What is the point of it if all you're trying to do is find loopholes to "sort of do it" without technically doing it.

Kids will try to find loopholes to "sort of do" a lot of things in life because everything feels better when you think you're getting around a rule. I realize there are adults who also do this, but an adult is more likely to know that not having sex makes you no less of a sexual being and that you can enjoy physicality without compromising yourself.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If people are going to engage in sex stuff without "having sex," they are bullshitting virginity.

SPEAK. The advice I give to my young ones (at church) is to stop at the point where they feel they are compromising themselves and their values. If you get all the way to sex and don't feel that way, then you need to ask yourself why you're waiting in the first place.

Ugh. I leave for camp in 2 days and I'm sure this will be a hot topic during cabin time.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I agree. I totally don't see anything wrong with kissing, either. I mean, there are all kinds of things couples can do with each other sexually without actually "doing the do".

I'm not trying to get all in your business, but would you be cool with anal?

Born again virgins, virgins, or what not, that's all good, and I can respect that, but I really don't see why folks do everything but sex. Either do it, or don't do it all. But at the same time communicate that to your partner, because some folks aren't down with that.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If people are going to engage in sex stuff without "having sex," they are bullshitting virginity. Just do the deed and stop playing with it.

LOL I feel you on this.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I'm not trying to get all in your business, but would you be cool with anal?

Ewwww! NO!! I think that's disgusting. To each its own, but I wouldn't do that with my husband when I marry. And I never said anything about oral, anal, or whatever. Yes, I was referring to something different, but that isn't any of your business.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Ewwww! NO!! I think that's disgusting. To each its own, but I wouldn't do that with my husband when I marry. And I never said anything about oral, anal, or whatever. Yes, I was referring to something different, but that isn't any of your business.

I keep getting you and christiangirl mixed up. Your names look similar and y'all post alike.

Sex toys? LOL it's all good if you don't want to post it. Some people aren't cool with anal, but that doesn't make it 'disgusting' like you think it is, especially of you've never tried it. 'Don't knock it til you try it'. What's wrong with oral?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I keep getting you and christiangirl mixed up. Your names look similar and y'all post alike.

Then you should have been here for the CG vs. CG battles of years past. They were Mortal Kombatting it! ROUND 1, FIGHT up in this piece!

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

Sex toys? LOL it's all good if you don't want to post it. Some people aren't cool with anal, but that doesn't make it 'disgusting' like you think it is, especially of you've never tried it. 'Don't knock it til you try it'. What's wrong with oral?

How did this thread become THIS? Oh yeah, because cheerfulgreek talked about sexual intimacy without copulation.

Maybe cheerfulgreek is talking about those mental sex episodes that some couples are doing. You lay down together and mentally stimulate each other to the point of physical orgasm. I call it "brain drain." I had a college friend who did this with her boyfriend. She said it was like actual sex without any oral, vaginal, or anal stimulation. Whatever floats their boat.

[christiangirl]

^^Do you save those clips in a file so you can break them out once a year??

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Purity pledges gross me out when they consist of father-daughter purity balls, etc. I think that has been discussed on GC before.

It has and I agreed that makes me wanna throw up a little. I allowed my dad to put my ring on me (standing in our kitchen when it came in the mail) and he kissed my forehead and said he was proud of me. That's the most involvement he has had in my (non)sex life. Anything further would have me creeped the eff out.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

"THE DEVIL IS IN YOUR VAGINA!!! DON'T LET THE DEVIL OUT!"

Obligatory pillow pants clip (nsfw): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYLt-YSiz0Y

Originally Posted by DrPhil

mental sex episodes

WTH? People do that? I'm imagining some cross between guided imagery and some kinda sex hypnosis. That sounds....weird.

(no longer directed at Phil) Honestly, there about 100 steps from 0 to sex. A couple can be physically intimate on several levels but people who have had sex seem not to ever think of them because they go straight for the gusto. Then there are those who won't even kiss for fear they'll get horny and skip steps 2-98. It isn't all about finding loopholes--you get to explore each other and find out what the other likes in the simplest, most innocent ways. If you feel so inclined to see what I mean, try it out.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

It has and I agreed that makes me wanna throw up a little. I allowed my dad to put my ring on me (standing in our kitchen when it came in the mail) and he kissed my forehead and said he was proud of me. That's the most involvement he has had in my (non)sex life. Anything further would have me creeped the eff out.

Did your dad putting the ring on you symbolize something?

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

There are several reasons I find these pledges ridiculous:

1. They don't really work. There is some delay in starting intercourse, but not much--and some of that delay can be explained by other factors. The vast majority of kids who take the pledges are still going to have premarital sex. While the STI transmission rates are the same, it seems that the pledgers' diagnoses are made at much later stages--which sets the stage for major problems later on, including cervical cancer and infertility.

There's also the studies out there that suggest that once pledgers are sexually active, they're less responsible. Since that could be a side effect of abstinence-only education, I won't put that solely on the pledges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/10/us...rely-kept.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...-pledges_N.htm

2. It's a way to control female sexuality. Your father controls your sexuality until he passes it off to your husband. The imagery of locks and keys is a little gross to me as well. I understand parents not wanting their kids to be hurt but this takes it to a whole other level. Like a reverse Electra complex.

Furthermore, it increases the Madonna/whore duality.

This sounds like an extreme case, but check this out: http://www.glamour.com/sex-love-life...1/purity-balls

3. It puts the responsibility on girls. While girls are exhorted to "stay pure," there's no corollary for the boys. While I'd imagine that there are plenty of young men who take these pledges, they're geared towards women. There are no mother/son balls--and any woman who organized such a thing would be pilloried.

4. Kids are encouraged to make these pledges when they're too young. I'd imagine the guilt and irresponsibility once sex actually happens is related to this. While there are some fast kids out there, most 11 and 12 year olds aren't thinking about sex. They also have very black-and-white views of the world. It's very easy to get someone that young to make a pledge without really understanding what it means.

It also appears that some of the surveys supporting the pledges only focused on younger kids who had taken the pledges within the past year. I'm sure that made the numbers look better than if they had waited to see what happened 5 years out.

--------

Don't get me wrong--I'm not anti-virginity. I think that boys and girls should wait to have sex until they can handle the emotional and physical responsibilities and consequences.

I agree.

I won't say these pledges are completely not the way to go because I don't want people who have taken the pledge at any age to feel as though they are doing something wrong. I have more of a problem with how many adults (parents) have forced these pledges on their children. It makes it a very strange process that has had a particular impact on how girls and young women view their bodies and view men. Men are viewed as sexual creatures who can't stop themselves so girls need to keep their vagina locked down. Bullshit. And, no, a father (or any parent) does not own a daughter's vagina so he is not who will be giving the vagina to the man (or woman or both) that the daughter will eventually have sex with (if she eventually has sex). That is too close to the ownership of women and the selling of brides that cultures around the world have been chastised for.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I keep getting you and christiangirl mixed up. Your names look similar and y'all post alike.

You might want to do a search. If not, here's a couple of recaps.
http://youtu.be/phEhGqsPeK0
http://youtu.be/rWepTvC6y8Y

"Can't the two CGs just get along?" -Rodney King

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

Sex toys?

Seriously? You're strange...Anyway, what goes on in my bedroom is none of your business.

I never heard of the other "mental" stuff that was posted. Weird, but to each its own.

eta: I've never researched it, but I'm hearing that oral sex causes throat cancer or something.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

eta: I've never researched it, but I'm hearing that oral sex causes throat cancer or something.

I read something like this, but I call bullshit on that, though. Folks think everything gives you cancer. Too much of anything is going to make you sick. A good example of that was the Super Size movie about fast food. If somebody gets cancer from having oral sex, they got it from something else. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. I've known healthy people who didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, eat unhealthy food, and still died from cancer. I don't buy a lot of the cancer stories people talk about.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I've known healthy people who didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, eat unhealthy food, and still died from cancer. .

I don't eat fast food, so I'm not going to comment on that. I also don't know if getting cancer from having oral sex is entirely true, so I won't debate that either. However, avoiding cigarette smoke, harmful chemicals, unhealthy food, etc. are all causes of cancer, so I don't disagree with you there. But that's not always the case with cancer. Cancer is just abnormal cell growth which is the result of mutations in certain genes. It's just that cancer cells have the ability to break free from the tissue of which they are a part. Most normal cells stay put, stuck to each other and their surroundings. Unless they are attached to something, they cannot grow and multiply. If they become detached, they pretty much commit kind of like a suicide by a process known as apoptosis. But in cancer cells the normal self destruct instructions do not work, and they can grow and multiply without being attached to anything. This allows them to invade the rest of the body, travelling via the bloodstream to start more tumors elsewhere (metastasis). You also need to know that some people are born with an increased risk of cancer because they inherit a mutation in a gene important for cell growth or for repairing damaged DNA. This means that all the cells in their body have already taken one step down the multistep pathway that turns a normal cell into a cancerous one, so just because a person doesn't smoke, eats healthy, doesn't do drugs etc, doesn't mean she/he is exempt from getting cancer and dying from it. I know because I deal with cancer patients at least twice a month. They're animals, but it invades the body in somewhat the same fashion.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I read something like this, but I call bullshit on that, though. Folks think everything gives you cancer. Too much of anything is going to make you sick. A good example of that was the Super Size movie about fast food. If somebody gets cancer from having oral sex, they got it from something else. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. I've known healthy people who didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, eat unhealthy food, and still died from cancer. I don't buy a lot of the cancer stories people talk about.

It is probably safe to say that most people who engage in certain forms of sex around the world do not get cancer, at least not directly and immediately linked to those forms of sex. It is also important to note the difference between correlation and causation. There are a number of things that are correlated with health outcomes but do not cause them--doing these things in and of themselves will not cause the health outcome more often than not.

People who do not want to engage in certain forms of sex have every right to do with their bodies as they choose. Whether they think it is gross, cancerous, or whatever...those who are getting married in cultures that encourage some level of (consensual) sexual liberation and openness with a spouse need to disclose their reservations prior to marriage. If the future spouse is fine with certain sexual restrictions then there is no problem. Perhaps they will eventually get curious and want to try it, perhaps the spouse will eventually want to engage in that sexual act...who knows but the couple needs to work that out through communication and understanding.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

SPEAK. The advice I give to my young ones (at church) is to stop at the point where they feel they are compromising themselves and their values.

See, this is what I don't like. Why start if there isn't going to be none? I hate that shit.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

See, this is what I don't like. Why start if there isn't going to be none? I hate that shit.

You're still here?

Let me clarify--I tell them to decide where the line is ahead of time. Not be hot and heavy with someone THEN say "Oh no, I want to stop here. This is where I'm uncomfortable." Of course these young girls (and boys, too) have the right to call stop time WHENEVER they are uncomfortable. But it's important to have a line and communicate where it is before even getting started.

Munchkin--Is there a reason why you think chastity pledges are "God-awful?" Because that's a pretty strong word for something that is actually a nice sentiment (if you're serious about it, which the people you knew CLEARLY weren't). The pledge should be an affirmation of what one has already decided because your signature on the card alone will do precisely jack if you hadn't thought about it before someone handed the card to you.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

You're still here?

Let me clarify--I tell them to decide where the line is ahead of time. Not be hot and heavy with someone THEN say "Oh no, I want to stop here. This is where I'm uncomfortable." Of course these young girls (and boys, too) have the right to call stop time WHENEVER they are uncomfortable. But it's important to have a line and communicate where it is before even getting started.

CTFU! You expected me to leave or something? I feel you on this, though. I misread your first post.