Ordering high end on the first date. Is it rude or is it just me?

[AlphaFrog]

That still doesn't answer my question...

If you *truly* wanted her to order whatever she wanted, without feeling like she's going to be sized up as a gold digger, what would you say other than "order whatever you want"?

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

That still doesn't answer my question...

If you *truly* wanted her to order whatever she wanted, without feeling like she's going to be sized up as a gold digger, what would you say other than "order whatever you want"?

What was "truly" in his mind she can't know -- especially not on a first date. Her best course of action, anybody's best course, really, is do what you know to be right.

Since I didn't say anything about her being sized up as a "gold digger" I'll leave that be.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

What was "truly" in his mind she can't know -- especially not on a first date. Her best course of action, anybody's best course, really, is do what you know to be right.

Since I didn't say anything about her being sized up as a "gold digger" I'll leave that be.

I'm not talking about him or his date.

If *You* went on a first (or any) date, the entire menu is very comfortably in your price range and she's making Halle Berry look like an old hag and you really do want her to enjoy herself and order anything on the menu in any quantity, how would you express this?

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I'm not talking about him or his date.

If *You* went on a first (or any) date, the entire menu is very comfortably in your price range and she's making Halle Berry look like an old hag and you really do want her to enjoy herself and order anything on the menu in any quantity, how would you express this?

Frankly, it would depend how I felt at the time, how much of an interest/emotional attachment (if any) had occured up until that time. Maybe I'd want to see how her personality handled a "get ready to wash dishes" joke, or maybe just sit back and observe whether she had the politeness of "ordering from the middle."

Your question blurred the first date/any date distinction, but for me it would matter. First (and early) dates, IMO, show you things about a person beyond the conversation. I'm in a committed relationship so all these things have been solved for me. My gf can order as she wishes. As for the bill, I'd not invite someone out w/out the ability to handle the bill. That's pretty much man-law 101 where I was raised.

Her "look" has absolutely nothing to do with whatever choice I'd make. Why? Because anybody you take out deserves to be treated nicely, and, most obviously, anyone you date you already have an attraction to on some level.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

We can debate how important pure transparancy is on a first date (such is the nature of GC), but he handled it the way he felt he should.

Exactly! I totally agree. A lot of people aren't transparent on a first date, but hang out with that person long enough and eventually things will show. People can only be on good behavior for so long before the real person begins to surface in your (in general) attitudes toward yourself (in general) as well as toward other people. The bottom line is how you present yourself is one of the first factors of how you land in a person's mind. First impressions are lasting ones.

Originally Posted by TonyB06

First (and early) dates, IMO, show you things about a person beyond the conversation.

As for the bill, I'd not invite someone out w/out the ability to handle the bill. That's pretty much man-law 101 where I was raised.

Her "look" has absolutely nothing to do with whatever choice I'd make. Why? Because anybody you take out deserves to be treated nicely, and, most obviously, anyone you date you already have an attraction to on some level.

All of this.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

Frankly, it would depend how I felt at the time, how much of an interest/emotional attachment (if any) had occured up until that time. Maybe I'd want to see how her personality handled a "get ready to wash dishes" joke, or maybe just sit back and observe whether she had the politeness of "ordering from the middle."

Your question blurred the first date/any date distinction, but for me it would matter. First (and early) dates, IMO, show you things about a person beyond the conversation. I'm in a committed relationship so all these things have been solved for me. My gf can order as she wishes. As for the bill, I'd not invite someone out w/out the ability to handle the bill. That's pretty much man-law 101 where I was raised.

Her "look" has absolutely nothing to do with whatever choice I'd make. Why? Because anybody you take out deserves to be treated nicely, and, most obviously, anyone you date you already have an attraction to on some level.

In other words, "order whatever you want" would only ever be a test for you and never a sincere gesture?

If this is what the OP was going for, then mission accomplished...what he does with the results seems to at this point conflict with the point of conducting the test to begin with. Either that, or the more likely scenario that he just learned a new social rule of event hosting.


And the looks thing was just a silly addition to the hypothetical to maybe actually get an answer.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

In other words, "order whatever you want" would only ever be a test for you and never a sincere gesture?

Wrong.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

Wrong.

So if it's not a test, why was the OP's girl wrong in ordering what she wanted after the invitation was issued...assuming she thought he was being sincere?

I absolutely agree as I've stated before that it's always polite to order from the middle of the menu, but this statement cancels that courtesy.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

In other words, "order whatever you want" would only ever be a test for you and never a sincere gesture?

Geesh...are people still doing tests for dates? That sucks.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

If you *truly* wanted her to order whatever she wanted, without feeling like she's going to be sized up as a gold digger, what would you say other than "order whatever you want"?

"WE'RE ON A BUDGET, BITCH!"

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

"WE'RE ON A BUDGET, BITCH!"

We're talking about dinner, not my husband after my last shoe shopping spree. LOL.

[KSig RC]

Why in the hell would you say ... anything?

Like ... we go to a fancy restaurant, I'm wearing my party tie and best slide-on shoes, we're in the moment. Why would I need to give a verbal cue to order? Isn't that weird as hell?

I guess the operative sports cliche would be "Ball don't lie" - why say anything at all, when all the context clues are already right there? Prompting somebody to get a fucking lobster is way more gauche than actually ordering the lobster.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Lesson learned: Stop talking just to talk and make yourself clear. Manners and moderate are subjective and cultural.

[I have been at gatherings where ordering less expensive or smaller amounts of food was interpreted as the person not having a good time and being ready to leave.]

If this is such an issue for you, find a way to respectfully convey (or politely say) "order whichever entree (singular), 2 drinks, and dessert (singular) that you want." If the "whichever entree" part scares you because some entrees are expensive, take your date to a less expensive restaurant. Look, adults need to stop acting so cautious and scary over things that may be silly in the longrun. You have more exciting things to spend your brain and time on than contemplating and reflecting on a dinner date. Get it said, get it done, and move on to more exciting things.

A smart person who has an issue with what their date is ordering would find a way to respectfully take the lead. Afterall, I would never want to date a man who could not respectfully tell me when to STOP ORDERING if he is the one paying for it. Even a "having to wash the dishes to pay for this" joke can work depending on the context.

ctfu @ the singular comment. I'll keep that in mind, because I'm hooking up with her next weekend.

Originally Posted by 33girl

No, this is exactly where you went wrong. "Order whatever you want" - that translates as "hmmm, this dude is trying to be Mr. Big Spender and impress me. Ok baby, it's on. 42 lobsters please!!"

When you take a girl to a restaurant...it's obvious that she'll order whatever she wants. The days of a man choosing the meal with zero input from the woman are long gone. If you feel the need to state the obvious, it will get twisted.

I just said that because I didn't want her to feel like she had to order light. It wasn't really the food that was costly, it was all those drinks she ordered.

You lost me on the second part of your post. Who said I was choosing her meal for her? I don't recall saying that.

Originally Posted by TonyB06

What precipitated you saying "order whatever you want?" Had she asked your opinion on any of the menu items? Had she asked if you'd dined there before?

Her menu selection is one of the many unstated markers that you pay attention to, particuarly on a first date. People will usually, through their actions, show you far more than they will tell you.

Even saying "order whatever you want" should not have been taken as an invite for her to go buckwild on the menu.

I'm going out with her next weekend. I never judge my dates off a menu selection. I just mention this one, because I was just trying to get other opinions to see if I was being too harsh.

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

lol
Why did you tell her that? I mean, why was that even necessary?

You've never told someone to take their time, but didn't really mean for them to move so slowly after you told them to? Same difference. I was trying to make her feel comfortable, she just got too comfortable.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

You lost me on the second part of your post. Who said I was choosing her meal for her? I don't recall saying that.

Saying to her "order anything you want" implies that there would be a time when she COULDN'T order anything she wants. It's kind of like if you went to the bathroom and she said "go ahead and unzip your fly before you pee." Tellling a person to do something they're obviously going to do anyway makes them think you're trying to get them to read between the lines.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

You've never told someone to take their time, but didn't really mean for them to move so slowly after you told them to? .

Yes, I have, but that's not the issue. This thread isn't about me, it's about you, and your financial mistake(s) that you made on your date. If you understand what your actions will cost you, perhaps you won't be so quick to do things that are detrimental to your finances. Your mistakes and failings can be your greatest teachers if you accept their lessons. My final advice to you is (like I've said a million times on here) if you spend enough time with her, she'll eventually become transparent -it's impossible not to. People can hide behind a representative for only so long. Until you have an understanding of that, and patience, you'll continue to make dumb decisions. Like I said, have some patience. Do that, and before you take the next step, you'll know what you're stepping into.